View Poll Results: How should Christopher Columbus be judged?

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  • He should be judged strictly by today's standards and mores.

    6 9.84%
  • Somewhere in the middle. (Please elaborate)

    9 14.75%
  • He should be judged by the standards and more of the time in which he lived.

    37 60.66%
  • Other

    9 14.75%
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Thread: How should Christopher Columbus be judged?

  1. #31
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    Re: How should Christopher Columbus be judged?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    You know... It's actually kind of funny.

    Columbus was a monster by just about any metric you want to go off. In spite of that, he has been played up as some kind of hero.

    Cortez, on the other hand, was actually a fairly reasonable guy by all accounts. Yet, the way he's usually portrayed these days, you'd be forgiven for mistaking him for Attila the Hun.

    What the Hell gives?
    I mean, they were both colonizers. Splitting hairs over which of them is worse when the outcome is similar seems kind of pointless
    "...it is all the more clear what we have to accomplish at present: I am referring to ruthless criticism of all that exists,"

  2. #32
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    Re: How should Christopher Columbus be judged?

    Quote Originally Posted by instagramsci View Post
    I mean, they were both colonizers. Splitting hairs over which of them is worse when the outcome is similar seems kind of pointless
    Well... Arguably, Cortez could be viewed as being something of a liberator, and a certifiable diplomatic and military genius. He united the various native city states of Mexico into a coalition against the rather brutal and repressive Aztec empire which had traditionally dominated them. In doing so, he secured one of the most lopsided "underdog" victories in recorded history.

    Sure. To be fair, he did so in return for oaths of fealty to the Spanish crown, and the promise of conversion to Christianity. However, by the standards of his day, that was a pretty fair trade.

    It also really wasn't his fault that later Spanish rulers bungled their governorship of the region.

    Columbus, on the other hand? Yea... Not so much.

    The long and short of it is that he was basically a greedy thug, who took advantage of being thousands of miles away from home in order to rule the domain the crown had given him like his own personal "heart of darkness."

    His actions were simply indefensible.

  3. #33
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    Re: How should Christopher Columbus be judged?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    1.)He didnt discover anything. Humans already lived there.
    2.)He was a murderous asshole.
    Hope you went to work today, assuming you have a job

  4. #34
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    Re: How should Christopher Columbus be judged?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabanist View Post
    Hope you went to work today, assuming you have a job
    Yup. Still here.


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    Re: How should Christopher Columbus be judged?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    He is a large part of the revisionist/false history taught in the USA. They just can't say we are a Nation founded on war and continuing to war as a National Policy to this day. You have to read revised histories of Latin America, South America, Cuba, Vietnam, Japan, Iraq, and every other Nation we have sullied with our Imperialistic resource collection. To read the history books, you'd think the USA was continually under attack or threat. What a load of crap. "War is good business, and business is good" in the good ol' USA>
    Its crap like this that is infecting schools and making this country worse.

  6. #36
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    Re: How should Christopher Columbus be judged?

    There are few historical adventurers that were not by todays standards ruthless.

    He did something great, its historical, deal with it, enjoy the holiday and stfu

  7. #37
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    Re: How should Christopher Columbus be judged?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    He is a large part of the revisionist/false history taught in the USA. They just can't say we are a Nation founded on war and continuing to war as a National Policy to this day. You have to read revised histories of Latin America, South America, Cuba, Vietnam, Japan, Iraq, and every other Nation we have sullied with our Imperialistic resource collection. To read the history books, you'd think the USA was continually under attack or threat. What a load of crap. "War is good business, and business is good" in the good ol' USA>
    If I were from another planet, and read your post only, I would presume that America has been the only nation that ever did anything via force. Which, of course, is absurd and just as misleading and irresponsible as the polar opposite point of view.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  8. #38
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    Re: How should Christopher Columbus be judged?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    The most prudent approach is to have a healthy balance between awareness and credit to the circumstances involved in any historical subject, but to also not become trapped by the temptation to engage in mere apologetics.
    Exactly. At least where serious history is concerned. The world loves their heroes and we have had generations of kids grow up idolizing an honest George Washington or an honest Abe Lincoln or thrilling at the heroic myths that grew up around such figures as Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett. There seemed to be no profit in also exposing the quite human but less than noble qualities in those historic figures. And for generations of school kids, Columbus has been much the same kind of mythical hero; i.e. the brave adventurer sailing into the unknown and discovering America so that others could follow. It was all true and why spoil it with the more human and less noble aspects of it? There would be plenty of time for historians to sort out the details later.

    And those historians did ultimately expose Columbus as quite human with some less than noble qualities. But his mother no doubt loved him as did many who would write about his adventures and exploits. It is a good thing to appreciate and understand the dark side of history but not to the exclusion of the good that came out of it. To demonize the whole man and what he accomplished because there is also a dark side is to be as short sighted and using selective history as do those who see only the hero.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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  10. #40
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    Re: How should Christopher Columbus be judged?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    How should Christopher Columbus be judged?

    Being that day is Columbus Day, I read something this morning that included something to the effect of, "If judged by today's standards...", then went off to detail all his atrocities, and so on.

    Is that fair? Should he be judged by today's standards and mores, or should he be judged according to the era in which he lived?

    Note: This question is NOT about whether or not he should have a holiday named after him.
    No, he should not. He should be judged by the standards, the norms and in the context of his times. In that context he was a brave man who led 3 ships west to discover America for the Europeans. Until his voyage, sailing off the end of the world was a fear. He went into the unknown. For that he should be given credit. Whether he was a good or bad man by today's standard is irrelevant.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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