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Thread: Who would you vote for in a republican primary?

  1. #151
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    Re: Who would you vote for in a republican primary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Thank you for demonstrating how your desire to bomb other countries into oblivion is stronger than your desire for liberty at home.
    Support for "liberty at home" does not require one to embrace a neo-isolationist/non-interventionist foreign policy. One can readily choose from among the major foreign policy schools and still support such liberty.

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    Re: Who would you vote for in a republican primary?

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Show me the bills that have bi-partisan support in the house (at least 30 Dem votes and many Conservative No votes) and you will move your point forward. The bills that are passed substantially along party lines that are sitting dormant in the Senate are not serious bills. If they were serious, you would see crossover vote in the house. In any serious business transaction, you put forth a reasonable offer that you know will be taken seriously because you have addressed the constituency you are presenting it to. If you can even get cross-over vote in the house, why do you think the Senate should take it seriously? Answer: they don't, which is why they sit on the sidelines, as they should. Negotiations only happen with a serious first offer; a serious first offer has 30+ democrats voting in favor

    Though I agree some bills (a handful) meet this criteria, most do not and are not serious pieces of legislation. They are just showboat to the House can do what its doing and say "look here, we did our job"...... Serious minds, however, are more discriminating and see this for the farce it is.

    Bogus Bipartisan Claims
    Many of the Bills do have bipartisan support. However the Senate does not care about bipartisan support. It proved that with the passage of Obamacare.

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    Re: Who would you vote for in a republican primary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Porchev View Post
    That is incorrect. Besides, the Senate is not even trying to discuss/negotiate/modify any bills, the are just sitting dormant. There is a big huge close-minded road block to most all bills: Harry Reid.

    Here is one list of the 387 Bills. There is info on the votes on most of them as well.
    Bill Tracker
    That is rather amazing. I wonder how many on this thread actually looked at that list?
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Who would you vote for in a republican primary?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    That is rather amazing. I wonder how many on this thread actually looked at that list?
    just as i question whether you and others read post 148 and its cite to appreciate why so many actions were not elevated to the senate floor ... and to view the misrepresentation of what is presented to be 'bi-partisan'
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Who would you vote for in a republican primary?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    just as i question whether you and others read post 148 and its cite to appreciate why so many actions were not elevated to the senate floor ... and to view the misrepresentation of what is presented to be 'bi-partisan'
    "factcheck.org" is a horrible place to cite. Even though it may sound official and unbiased, it is not. And it has ties to radical leftists such as Bill Ayers.

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    Re: Who would you vote for in a republican primary?

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Show me the bills that have bi-partisan support in the house (at least 30 Dem votes and many Conservative No votes
    Wait...your definition of Bipartisan is that some people on both sides like it and many people on both sides don't?

    So something that has full democratic support and say 25% of the Republicans in that particular wing of Congress's support wouldn't be bipartisan because too many Democrats support it? O.o

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    Re: Who would you vote for in a republican primary?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    just as i question whether you and others read post 148 and its cite to appreciate why so many actions were not elevated to the senate floor ... and to view the misrepresentation of what is presented to be 'bi-partisan'
    But the fact is some were bipartisan--even your link challenging the post admitted that. And is it considered by partisan by your side if five or so Republicans vote for something? What is bipartisan can be somewhat subjective. And the fact remains that there are many MANY bills that the House has passed that the Senate has yet to even debate. We don't know how many are actually considered. And it doesn't matter that some are in committee. Nothing gets out of committee until Harry Reid gives his okay.

    When you are writing something to make a point, it sometimes takes half a page or more to mention all the extenuating circumstances or anomalies or other factors that go into any complex subject. So we can choose to deflect from the point made by nitpicking every single point of accuracy, or we can choose to see the point made and acknowledge it even if we mention that there are also some extenuating circumstances.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Who would you vote for in a republican primary?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    just as i question whether you and others read post 148 and its cite to appreciate why so many actions were not elevated to the senate floor ... and to view the misrepresentation of what is presented to be 'bi-partisan'
    Actually, post 148 highlights perfectly the issue with the comment "bipartisan". It's a non-specific term that fluxuates person to person and situation to situation. Even the link in post 148 qualifies it's statement by saying many are not "very" bipartisan...applying some kind of opinion based standard of what THEY feel qualifies as "bipartisan" and treating that like it's a fact. I'll note that this kind of "factchecking"...IE, putting an over emphasis on their opinion and then treating said opinion as fact...is an issue I've been noting about Factcheck since the election when they ROUTINELY "fact checked" things in a very different way than the two other major fact checkers, largely based on assumptions and guesses and benefits of hte doubt they would give in some instances and not in the others.

    This is the issue with words sometimes and the laughable nature of people who are trying to call out political "spin" using some of the very buzzwords that are ingrained within the political spin cycle.

    Take the poster from 148's seeming numbers...."bipartisan" requires that 15% of the opposition party supports it and 8.5% of the majority party also opposes it.

    Back in 2013 we had all of four republican senators coming to an agreement with all but 4 Democrats on a possible gun control bill and the media was trumpeting that as a "bipartisan" bill. Using Upsideguy's criteria, this shouldn't be called bipartisan as it didn't have the requisite 5 democrats voting against it or the requisite 7 republicans voting for it. But many were championing it as "bipartisan" and I don't seem to remember many fact checks being done when Liberals were scolding the "extreme right wing" about not getting on board with "bipartisan" gun control measures.

    As a note, "Factcheck" called this bill Bipartisan despite only having FOUR Republicans supporting it; no where near a "majority" of Republicans. Yet they call the Republican claim of bipartisan "bogus" because and not "very bipartisan" because it didn't have a majority of democrats voting for it. This is the issue with a site that continually attempts to present qualitative analysis as quantitative and attempts to present it's opinion as facts while ignoring that it's opinion changes from instance to instance.

    On the flip side, back in 2011 President Obama proclaimed that "nearly every Senate Republican voted against a Tax Cut", despite 44% doing quite the opposite. Shockingly, the outlet deciding whether something is "very" bipartisan seemingly had nothing to say about that whopper of a mistruth.

    My point being that politicians, pundits, posters, and yes "factcheck" sites play fast and loose with how they measure, react, and depict "support" from accross the aisle when it comes to various types of bills in various types of situations.

    That's not to say an argument can't be made that there was not many truly "good faith" bipartisan bills coming out of the House in ones opinion...but that's just that, opinion without HARD facts to back it up. Factcheck making a qualitative, rather than quantitative, analysis of what DEGREE of "bipartisanship" is needed to qualify as "bipartisanship" is OPINION being masqueraded as "fact" and should not be relyed upon in and of itself as some kind of absolute authority.

    For an example of their unequitable treatment, compare the article talking about the "Bogus" claims of bipartisanship by those on the right to the "not entirely" true claims of bipartisanship by an individual on the left. Specifically at the snarky end line of the "bogus" piece with the far more moderated fact toned one in "not entirely".

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    Re: Who would you vote for in a republican primary?

    That's just a list of punks that don't deserve anyone's vote.

  10. #160
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    Re: Who would you vote for in a republican primary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Wait...your definition of Bipartisan is that some people on both sides like it and many people on both sides don't?

    So something that has full democratic support and say 25% of the Republicans in that particular wing of Congress's support wouldn't be bipartisan because too many Democrats support it? O.o
    Yes, kind of like a fairway shot as opposed to something that ends up in the rough on the left or right. If you want to score, you want to keep the ball in the fairway.

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