View Poll Results: Economic Disparity = Education Inequality?

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    40 83.33%
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Thread: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

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    Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Studies have shown that children coming from families of the top 10% of income generally had better test scores than children from the the lower 90% of income. Not only do they generally have better test scores, but also are much more likely to get into an elite college. For decades, parents from higher income families spend an exponential amount of money on learning expense for their children. These numbers are only increasing, possibly giving children from lower income families a massive disadvantage.

    So my questions to you guys--the Debate Politics community--are:

    Could the possible increase in educational inequality of children of different social classes be due to the wide economic disparity that we have today between the rich and the poor?

    Do you think there should be more elite educational programs for children of the lower class?

    Also, what other factors could possibly be involved?

    Growing wealth gap may threaten education
    BY KYLA CALVERT September 30, 2014 at 3:43 PM EDT
    The idea that a college degree is a ticket to a middle-class lifestyle or that a good education can break generations-long cycles of poverty in a family is a lynchpin in stories of achieving the American Dream. But data show education is just one more arena in American life where gap between the rich and poor is widening.

    The Associated Press reports today that education spending by the country’s wealthiest families increased their education spending by 35 percent during the economic downturn to $5,210 per child. During the same period, education spending per child stagnated at $1,000 in the other 90 percent of American households.

    The extra dollars are going toward expenses like SAT and other tutors, private school tuition, childcare and preschool.

    A growing gap between higher and lower-income students on measures like reading proficiency and college completion is already well documented, according to a New York Times report from 2012.

    Data showing those trends in 2012 were only available through 2007 and 2008, before the economic downturn took hold.

    A report out last year from the Hamilton Project also found a growing gap in the education spending of high- and low-income families.

    “The most concerning thing is that there are initial signs that inequality is starting to bleed into social mobility. And social mobility is at the heart of the American experience,” Michael Greenstone, the co-author of the report and an economics professor at MIT told the Boston Globe.
    Some Other Good Reads:
    Money Makes A Difference, Even In Kindergarten
    Inequality among students rises - Business - The Boston Globe
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/10/ed...dies-show.html

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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Bump
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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    It is pretty simple. High income families generally are already more educated families and recognize the benefit to a good education. They also then pursue that better education. They also generally will be more intelligent and that is the very reason that they are more educated families pursuing higher education and better paying jobs. It is cyclical. A smart educated man generally marries a smart educated woman. They have children that are generally smart and eventually well educated. Round and round we go and the same exact thing is OPPOSITE for poor families. Reverse it all. Not as educated. Not as able to recognize the value of a good education. Get poorer paying jobs. Not as smart or educated man marries and conceives with not as smart or educated woman. Cyclical. I see it every year in the education profession.
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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    >" Down off the coast of Mexico, in small fishing villages that dot the shoreline, tourists will see the catch of the day being hauled in for market. In the market place you will see all sorts of vendors selling fish, lobsters, shellfish, and of course mexican crabs. The vendor of mexican crabs are known as "Crab-masters" and they keep their catch of crabs in large, shallow pans for the tourist to see and buy. Of course the tourists are curious and they ask the "Crab-master", "why the crabs with their long legs and claws just don't reach up and pull themselves out of the pan, flop into the gutter and make their way back to the sea rather than end up as an 'Avacado Crab Cocktail' later in the evening?"

    And the "Crab-Master" will reply, "Well Senor', the Mexican crab has a characteristic that is indigenous to only the Mexican crab and that is, every time a crab reaches up to pull himself out to freedom, it is the habit of the other crabs to reach up and pull him back into the pan."

    I say to you that in life we may run into some "Mexican crabs" disguised as "people" who may try to pull you down in life. But, I believe the Lifestream experience gives us a choice, we can either let those Mexican crabs pull us down into the "grungies" or we can hold onto them and pull them out of the pan to more life, more freedom, more happiness, to the best of life and I'm for that, how about you? "<

    Mexican Crabs - A story by Jim Quinn, Founder of the Lifestream Basic Seminar - Cameron Freeman

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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by TSAE View Post
    Studies have shown that children coming from families of the top 10% of income generally had better test scores than children from the the lower 90% of income. Not only do they generally have better test scores, but also are much more likely to get into an elite college. For decades, parents from higher income families spend an exponential amount of money on learning expense for their children. These numbers are only increasing, possibly giving children from lower income families a massive disadvantage.

    So my questions to you guys--the Debate Politics community--are:

    Could the possible increase in educational inequality of children of different social classes be due to the wide economic disparity that we have today between the rich and the poor?

    Do you think there should be more elite educational programs for children of the lower class?

    Also, what other factors could possibly be involved?
    Have you ever spent time in chronically poor households? Have you ever spent time in affluent households? If so, did you notice any difference in behaviors (of the parents), communication patterns, family routines, disciplinary styles, etc., between the two?

    Outcomes for children depend a lot on the environment in which children are raised, not just the quality of education. Poor people tend to be less able to create an environment conducive to learning and growing up mentally well-adjusted. That lack of ability is often what leads to the inability of the family to climb out of being poor. It's a cycle.

    But that's just the household side. Concerning the education side, another factor is teachers' unions. Crappy teachers are sometimes let go because they're crappy, but unions fight for the crappy teachers to not be labeled as such to serve as a caution to other schools to not hire them. Schools that successfully got rid of bad teachers often have to give neutral references or are legally forbidden from stating truthfully why the teacher was let go. Eventually these crappy teachers move around from place to place until they end up in a school so desperate for teachers that they will take whatever it can get and won't fire them even if their performance is lacking in important ways. Guess where those schools are? Poorer districts. The cream rises and the crap sinks. The crap should just be flushed out of the educational system altogether and those people who were not cut out to be teachers should go get different career. But that doesn't happen. The teachers are protected at the expense of the students in poorer districts.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 10-13-14 at 02:06 AM.

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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    People who are born on third base obviously have a much better chance of scoring.

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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    It is pretty simple. High income families generally are already more educated families and recognize the benefit to a good education. They also then pursue that better education. They also generally will be more intelligent and that is the very reason that they are more educated families pursuing higher education and better paying jobs. It is cyclical. A smart educated man generally marries a smart educated woman. They have children that are generally smart and eventually well educated. Round and round we go and the same exact thing is OPPOSITE for poor families. Reverse it all. Not as educated. Not as able to recognize the value of a good education. Get poorer paying jobs. Not as smart or educated man marries and conceives with not as smart or educated woman. Cyclical. I see it every year in the education profession.
    I disagree on a lot of this.

    1. Money does not dictate how a family may feel about the value of education. There are countless people living in poverty who understand the value of education and want nothing more than to be able to provide that education for their children and themselves. They may not have the money to ensure their kids can get the education needed to succeed, that doesn't mean they don't understand the value.

    2. Money does not equal intelligence. And lack of money does not equal lack of intelligence.

    Quite simply money = opportunity. Not just in education but in influence, opportunity, and chances.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    People who are born on third base obviously have a much better chance of scoring.
    True, but people who don't even put on their uniform have no chance whatsoever and that's the reason a lot of poor people are poor generation after generation. They don't even try.
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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    More money equates to greater odds of general stability, in terms of the kids not having to work to pull in extra cash, in terms of them being less likely to move around due to housing costs or for the parents to find jobs, the all around psychological perk of their being no insecurity about the future, etc. And of course richer people can afford better private schools. Anyone who would doubt that rich kids don't have a leg up on their lesser-moneyed counterparts is living in a dreamland. It really isn't up for debate.

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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    True, but people who don't even put on their uniform have no chance whatsoever and that's the reason a lot of poor people are poor generation after generation. They don't even try.
    Sometimes, those odds are stacked against someone so massively in height, breadth and depth; it doesn't matter what they do, the odds are insurmountable. So it's not necessarily about lack of effort.

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