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Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

Economic Disparity = Education Inequality?

  • Yes

    Votes: 31 83.8%

  • No

    Votes: 6 16.2%
  • Total voters
    37
roguenuke said:
It isn't just the uberwealthy though. If your family has enough to pay for your college, that means that you have an advantage over anybody whose family doesn't simply from the fact that someone who doesn't is going to have to work harder than you, and likely start their lives with more debt than you based solely on where they started from.
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Thats reality, welcome. Approaching this from the baseline of equality of outcomes will always fluster you.

Did you know that even within a family-the oldest child tends to outperform the younger siblings? Inequality is reality.
 
US Conservative said:
Thats reality, welcome. Approaching this from the baseline of equality of outcomes will always fluster you.

Did you know that even within a family-the oldest child tends to outperform the younger siblings? Inequality is reality.
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And I want to change the system that makes it this way. Change is also reality.
 
TSAE said:
Studies have shown that children coming from families of the top 10% of income generally had better test scores than children from the the lower 90% of income. Not only do they generally have better test scores, but also are much more likely to get into an elite college. For decades, parents from higher income families spend an exponential amount of money on learning expense for their children. These numbers are only increasing, possibly giving children from lower income families a massive disadvantage.

So my questions to you guys--the Debate Politics community--are:

Could the possible increase in educational inequality of children of different social classes be due to the wide economic disparity that we have today between the rich and the poor?

Do you think there should be more elite educational programs for children of the lower class?

Also, what other factors could possibly be involved?

Growing wealth gap may threaten education


Some Other Good Reads:
Money Makes A Difference, Even In Kindergarten
Inequality among students rises - Business - The Boston Globe
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/10/e...grows-between-rich-and-poor-studies-show.html
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Yes, children of the elite most certainly have an advantage. The reason isn't simply money though. Although it is money that allows it. The reason that children of the elite have better test scores is due to the fact that the parents often hire people to take care of their children. Those that are hired to take care of the children are able to devote their whole time to the kids and as such can help them with their homework, understanding of said homework. Also there is the fact that those elite parents can hire private tutors and its been shown that tutors can help teach one person a lot better than a teacher can in a classroom filled with 25-30 students.

Those that are poor on the other hand cannot hire someone to take care of the kids this way. Combine that with the fact that those same parents have to work and as such cannot spend the time needed to help their kids only means that the kids are not getting the time/attention needed to succeed like the kids of rich parents.

As far as education goes...imo ALL education should be free and available to anyone and everyone of any age. As the old saying goes, "knowledge is power". The elite are able to gain that knowledge due to being able to pay for it in all forms. The poor....not so much. Yeah yeah, I know, there's grants and loans and scholarships and blah blah blah for the poor. Not everyone qualifies or can spend the time necessary to get a good education or any of those grants, loans, scholarships etc etc. A few years ago I spent every day for 6 months looking for some type of grant or loan to get a better education. Never once found one that I qualified for (though I found plenty that would have allowed my wife). The only way i've been able to get a better education is by 1: reading up on the material myself and 2: getting hired by companies that are willing to take the time to train people. For that reason I now have a tech job working for Apple. A job that I actually enjoy to.
 
roguenuke said:
Not everyone has their own house. Most poor people rent. Kind of hard to sell what you don't own.
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If it's financially smarter for a given family to rent forever instead of buy, then that decision should be easier to save away for the kids' colleges.

Simply put, as my signature line explains, people have to save money if they want to build wealth. The way to save money is to spend less than one earns. That simply has to be done in order to build savings and wealth. I don't have sympathy for perpetual excuse-makers in that regard. I do have sympathy for children who are abused or neglected in any way, but that's different.
People should not have children if they are so incapable of parenting that the children will be neglected and/or abused.
 
Neomalthusian said:
If it's financially smarter for a given family to rent forever instead of buy, then that decision should be easier to save away for the kids' colleges.

Simply put, as my signature line explains, people have to save money if they want to build wealth. The way to save money is to spend less than one earns. That simply has to be done in order to build savings and wealth. I don't have sympathy for perpetual excuse-makers in that regard. I do have sympathy for children who are abused or neglected in any way, but that's different.
People should not have children if they are so incapable of parenting that the children will be neglected and/or abused.
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It is simply financially infeasible for some people to buy a house because of their circumstances.

It is not neglect to not be able to save up for your children's future education.
 
Poor people can get grants for college. Middle class cannot
 
roguenuke said:
It is simply financially infeasible for some people to buy a house because of their circumstances.

It is not neglect to not be able to save up for your children's future education.
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I didn't say it was, but that doesn't mean society should excuse people from having to provide for their own children.

If you're really hung up on the higher education cost thing, then the goal should be to bring its actual cost down, not subsidize an overpriced thing and create more layers of inequality under the law.
 
Neomalthusian said:
I didn't say it was, but that doesn't mean society should excuse people from having to provide for their own children.

If you're really hung up on the higher education cost thing, then the goal should be to bring its actual cost down, not subsidize an overpriced thing and create more layers of inequality under the law.
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I'm all for bringing the cost down. I didn't actually say that it should be subsidies. But that still requires money, making things more fair, something that is fought by those at the top of the income brackets.
 
roguenuke said:
I'm all for bringing the cost down. I didn't actually say that it should be subsidies. But that still requires money, making things more fair, something that is fought by those at the top of the income brackets.
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I'm interested to read what you think should be done regarding the price of higher education, if not subsidies.
 
roguenuke said:
Grants rarely cover college costs completely, even for community college.
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Why should they? Want someone to do well? Make sure they have skin in the game.

And grants plus loans gives them enough for tuition room and board

At least it did when i went to school
 
Sabanist said:
Why should they? Want someone to do well? Make sure they have skin in the game.

And grants plus loans gives them enough for tuition room and board

At least it did when i went to school
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And having loans still puts people behind. If I go to school on loans while someone else goes to school completely paid for by their parent, and we get jobs that pay the same amount when we get out, that puts me still behind because I owe money and they don't. That is the point. In reality, that is a huge disparity.
 
roguenuke said:
And having loans still puts people behind. If I go to school on loans while someone else goes to school completely paid for by their parent, and we get jobs that pay the same amount when we get out, that puts me still behind because I owe money and they don't. That is the point. In reality, that is a huge disparity.
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That disparity is called life, see my sig.

Instead of crying about it, try to improve yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wdjz2zCCXU0
 
roguenuke said:
People do. That doesn't mean we cannot also work to minimize the unfairness.
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Unfairness is a subjective and vague term. What you are really saying is we should take from some to give to others under the parameters you see fit. Entirely YOU making that claim, just own it.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
I wonder if it is true that less successful people are more likely to over-generalize than more successful people.
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they also tend to breed more as well
 
Cephus said:
Because that $10 million has already been taxed. You only have to pay taxes once. If the postal worker left the $55k to his children, they wouldn't have to pay taxes on it again either.
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The tax is paid by the owner of the money or the property. When money or property changes hands it has a new owner and is subject to being taxed again. Yes, the person who made the ten million paid tax on it. Then he gives the money to somebody else and the money has a new owner and that new owner never paid tax on it.

The money people get in their paycheck is potentially taxed over and over and over and over again each time it changes hands.
 
Sabanist said:
Why should they? Want someone to do well? Make sure they have skin in the game.

And grants plus loans gives them enough for tuition room and board

At least it did when i went to school
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I agree with you about having skin in the game, and I can attest to the fact that those college students who are paying their way through, whether it's by working or scholarships/grants or a combo of both (and, generally, those using their GI Bill bennies) do much better academically than those students like me whose parents were floating their financial boat.

What I find interesting is this very modern notion that everybody is entitled to a college education and that not having somebody else pay for it is somehow unfair.
 
roguenuke said:
Grants rarely cover college costs completely, even for community college.
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Then get a part time job like I did while I was going to school. Or you can do a few years in the military and get out with some additional skills and the GI Bill. Hell they might just enjoy it and stay in as I did. Now I make a very good living and get all the being it's as pass the GI bill to my son so he can go to school. There are many many ways to get ahead in the US if you make good choices and work hard. Always making excuses for other people does not do anyone any good.
 
Bodhisattva said:
It is pretty simple. High income families generally are already more educated families and recognize the benefit to a good education. They also then pursue that better education. They also generally will be more intelligent and that is the very reason that they are more educated families pursuing higher education and better paying jobs. It is cyclical. A smart educated man generally marries a smart educated woman. They have children that are generally smart and eventually well educated. Round and round we go and the same exact thing is OPPOSITE for poor families. Reverse it all. Not as educated. Not as able to recognize the value of a good education. Get poorer paying jobs. Not as smart or educated man marries and conceives with not as smart or educated woman. Cyclical. I see it every year in the education profession.
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You really think the reason someone below the poverty line doesn't attend Harvard is that they don't see the value of attending Harvard?
 
roguenuke said:
And having loans still puts people behind. If I go to school on loans while someone else goes to school completely paid for by their parent, and we get jobs that pay the same amount when we get out, that puts me still behind because I owe money and they don't. That is the point. In reality, that is a huge disparity.
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So? Who said you should have what someone else has?

Why should it be any concern to me if a coworker of mine had his school paid for by their parents?
 
Deuce said:
You really think the reason someone below the poverty line doesn't attend Harvard is that they don't see the value of attending Harvard?
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The reason they typically don't attend Harvard is that they're not exceptional academic performers and/or they're not rich and powerful.

And the intergenerationally poor often can't even see the value in attempting to succeed in high school.
 
Deuce said:
You really think the reason someone below the poverty line doesn't attend Harvard is that they don't see the value of attending Harvard?
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In most cases I don't think that they are thinking about a university at all, much less Harvard.

I teach. I have taught thousands and a minority fraction of those that were poor even attempted to go to university. Most simply scoffed at the entire idea of university as a stupid idea.

Just facts that I don't think the vast majority of those arguing against me even have a clue about.
 
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