View Poll Results: Economic Disparity = Education Inequality?

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Thread: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

  1. #71
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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    You have the classic example with
    blue and brown eyed kids. Suddenly the teachers told about a study that said blue eyed kids was smarter. Their work etichs increased and the brown eyed kids decreassed. Not only that by the teacher became more favorable too the blue eyed kids. Even if it was not planed in the expetiment. The result was the opposite when it was told brow eyed kids was smarter.

    That going to a crappy school with only other poor kids will lead to alot of negative expectations with negative result.

  2. #72
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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by ashurbanipal View Post
    The problems I see with this position are two:

    1) What about the people who were financially ready, but who lost their asses in 2008 and are now doing anything to make ends meet? I've personally laid off not a few people who were making 50K+ (in the midwest--this was a good income, especially at the time), and who had been assured their jobs were safe (this was back in 99-00 following the tech bubble). Not all of them were able to get good jobs again.
    Those are not the people I'm talking about. I'm talking specifically about the people who were never financially ready, who have never had the fiscal position to be able to afford kids but had them anyway. The poor are more likely to have lots of kids than the wealthy are and that has nothing to do with losing more kids in childhood as used to be the case, it has nothing to do with needing more kids to help with the harvests as used to be the case, it's just having a bunch of kids for the sake of having a bunch of kids. It's all about fiscal responsibility and unfortunately, the poorer you are, the more liberal you tend to be and fiscal responsibility goes right out the window.

    2) This is a particular instantiation of a more general claim often made by conservatives, that the poor should do what fits their circumstance. Stated thus, it sounds reasonable enough-everyone should do what fits their circumstance, no?
    Absolutely so. We don't need a double standard, everyone should live within their means.

    Well, my answer is: not necessarily. I'm not sure that what a person ought to do is the only thing that does, or should, have moral standing in the matter. It seems to me that the reason societies exist in the first place is to ensure a certain basic living standard for all participants (the exceptions being spelled out in a society's criminal code). But the rules governing wealth distribution in a society are essentially arbitrary. When one part of a society has to start adapting certain aspects of their living standards, it strikes me as manifestly unfair. For example, the answer to the poor having a difficult time getting out of poverty is to "work harder." Well, how hard should someone have to work? If society owes a person literally nothing, then why in the world should the person owe anything back? It would be easier for the person to steal, murder, and pillage their way out of poverty, and, again, if no one owes the person anything at all, then why wouldn't this be fair? Why do the poor owe anything to those who owe them nothing in return? The exceptions in criminal code are for those who enjoy the fruits of living in society with others. When there are no such fruits, no consideration has passed from society to the individual, and hence there can be no binding agreement.
    Morality has nothing to do with it. Everyone owes it to themselves, many of the reasons that the poor remain poor is because they do things that are self-destructive to success. They have multiple children out of wedlock. They get involved in drugs and gangs. They go to prison. They drop out of school. These are all things that harm them as individuals and they pass that harm on to their offspring so that generation after generation suffers the same problems. This is not about rich vs. poor, it's about personal responsibility and doing things to maximize your own success so you don't have to go to others for help on a regular basis. The poor often did this to themselves and continue to shoot themselves in the foot for generations on end because nobody ever holds them accountable for their own actions.

    Perhaps more perspicuously: it's not fair or just for the poor to have to work very much harder than everyone else, or to have to give up the basic rights of such things as enjoying children (or simply sex), merely because they are poor.
    Nobody said life was fair and nobody said they had to work harder than anyone else. It comes right back to those basic conservative values: personal responsibility, fiscal responsibility and hard work. There is no right to breed like rabbits and people need to stop pretending that there is. The poor will always be poor so long as they continue to engage in behaviors that are detrimental to success. They have only to look in the mirror to see where the lion's share of their problems come from.
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  3. #73
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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    I don't think we can do anything about it, I was just making a social commentary.
    Oh but we can. Stop giving extra breaks for inheritance and treat it like all other income. In fact, take all money coming into ones pocket and treat it as all other normal income from wages and salary. That would be a start.
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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Oh but we can. Stop giving extra breaks for inheritance and treat it like all other income. In fact, take all money coming into ones pocket and treat it as all other normal income from wages and salary. That would be a start.
    That may have a slight impact, but the fact is wealthy kids are going to go to the best schools, have all sorts of connections and in many cases benefit from nepotism. That is just the way it is.
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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Oh but we can. Stop giving extra breaks for inheritance and treat it like all other income. In fact, take all money coming into ones pocket and treat it as all other normal income from wages and salary. That would be a start.
    And that does what, exactly, for the poor? Or are you just out to punish the wealthy?
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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    That may have a slight impact, but the fact is wealthy kids are going to go to the best schools, have all sorts of connections and in many cases benefit from nepotism. That is just the way it is.
    I agree that there are advantages that are going to be there and you named a few. So lets not compound it by giving extra breaks to inheritance that we do NOT extend to income from wages.
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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    And that does what, exactly, for the poor? Or are you just out to punish the wealthy?
    The irony is that any the proposal does not count inherited assets as income since they aren't "cash in pocket" and it would have to wait until it is sold--if ever.

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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    And that does what, exactly, for the poor? Or are you just out to punish the wealthy?
    It treats the income of the middle class and the poor the same as the inheritance income from the wealthy and that sort of equal treatment is what we all should be supporting as part of the American Way. We could always take that extra income when the adjustment is made and use it to pay down that pesky debt.
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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    The irony is that any the proposal does not count inherited assets as income since they aren't "cash in pocket" and it would have to wait until it is sold--if ever.
    So if I go on a game show and win prizes like cars and vacations worth $65,000.00 - I don't pay any tax on it unless I sell it?
    __________________________________________________ _
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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    It treats the income of the middle class and the poor the same as the inheritance income from the wealthy and that sort of equal treatment is what we all should be supporting as part of the American Way. We could always take that extra income when the adjustment is made and use it to pay down that pesky debt.
    Any inheritance in the middle class is treated the same way as any inheritance in the upper class. The size of the inheritance is irrelevant.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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