View Poll Results: Economic Disparity = Education Inequality?

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    40 83.33%
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Thread: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

  1. #31
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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    If it is your opinion that if someone is poor it is because they are lazy and unintelligent, and if you are a teacher of some sort, I seriously feel bad for the kids at your school. You should not be allowed to teach.
    That is obviously not what I was just stating because if that is your conclusion it is only indicating that you are a very poor student.
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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    Quite simply money = opportunity. Not just in education but in influence, opportunity, and chances.
    I think it's even more than this. More than opportunities, poor people have no buffer with which to weather setbacks and pitfalls. A talented young college student, only able to afford to go to school on scholarships, and a wealthier student of moderate intelligence both have to drop out for a semester due to a medical complication. Only one of them will be able to come back later. That's one of the big things that is ignored about wealth disparity. Wealth lets you bounce back from the problems that come your way. Those same problems keep a poor person down that an economically secure person can just deal with. This applies to many areas in addition to education.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    What about the people who work hard and make good decisions but lose everything to a random act of chance?
    This, right here. That random act of chance is far more likely to cost someone everything when they don't have much to start with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Then life sucks, nobody ever said that life was fair, but what percentage of people are those? Just picking one or two examples out of millions who do not work hard and do not make good decisions and who can't point to a single life-changing moment really means nothing.
    You have your odds very much in reverse, and why does a single life changing moment that kicks you down matter but a lifetime of small pokes that you couldn't do anything about? Outside of the top down economics fantasyland, a person doesn't succumb to the trials they face because of a lack of moral fiber. They succumb because they never had the tools to overcome the trials in the first place. An illness, a bad investment, a family emergency, you or I can take those and get right back up. Someone struggling to pay their rent in the first place can't do that. And no amount of whining about "ghetto culture" (which is something that applies to only a very small minority of the hardworking poor people of this country) will change that.

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    many risks can be insured against. and if they failed to exercise such insured coverage, where their decisions, to opt out of insurance, good ones

    i will assume you are addressing those rare instances when unavoidable, unpredictable calamity happens ... and to that i would submit it happens to rich and poor alike
    See, people keep forgetting this. This kind of calamity is not that rare. And it doesn't take a single huge moment. Half a dozen small ones in the span of a year can do it just fine. And while you or I might have the means to insure against or to simply survive those problems, those who are struggling do not. That's why we just spent years trying to reform healthcare, because for those who can't afford insurance at all, a chronic illness can bankrupt them. Someone who starts out with plenty doesn't have to worry about that.
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  3. #33
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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    For wealthy people's kids, education isn't a requirement for "success".


    For poor people, education isn't a guarantee of "success".


    I put quotations marks around the word success because, what is, and isn't, is a matter of opinion. My parents brought in, between them, about 75K a year, near as I can tell, before they retired. My dad was a machinist for 30 years, and my mom was a secretary. Blue collar, lower middle family from South Carolina, here.

    Between the wide and I, we bring in a tad over 100K per year, both in retail management. I am wealthier than my parents where at my age, for certain, even though I now live in CT, a VERY expensive state.

    But I won't consider myself to be "successful" until I alone am bringing in 100K a year. Why that number? I have no idea. I truly don't. Maybe because that's what I feel I'm worth. Maybe because it's over double what my dad used to make. Who knows.
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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    What about the people who work hard and make good decisions but lose everything to a random act of chance?
    Working hard plays a relatively modest part. You can work really hard to produce something no one wants. It sucks, but it happens. Hard work is but one prerequisite.

    "Good" decisions are the key. The better financial decisions you make, the less likely you are to "lose everything to a random act of chance." Success doesn't rely on pure chance. So if one's "good" decisions involve compulsive avoidance of debt and other large and long-term financial commitments, constant consumption decisions that allow one to always spend less than what is produced or earned, and builds assets over time, there is a minimized chance of being chronically poor.

    The act of saving some of every dollar you earn means you always have greater net worth than before.

    A decision deemed a "good" one based on how likely it is to produce desirable outcomes, all other things constant.

  5. #35
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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    It is pretty simple. High income families generally are already more educated families and recognize the benefit to a good education. They also then pursue that better education. They also generally will be more intelligent and that is the very reason that they are more educated families pursuing higher education and better paying jobs. It is cyclical. A smart educated man generally marries a smart educated woman. They have children that are generally smart and eventually well educated. Round and round we go and the same exact thing is OPPOSITE for poor families. Reverse it all. Not as educated. Not as able to recognize the value of a good education. Get poorer paying jobs. Not as smart or educated man marries and conceives with not as smart or educated woman. Cyclical. I see it every year in the education profession.
    what he said-exactly



  6. #36
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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus
    But they're not. The reason so many schools in poor neighborhoods are bad is because the parents don't care. They don't get involved. They don't care about education. They don't instill a love of learning in their children. Most kids drop out before they graduate high school. None of that has anything to do with the amount of money someone has, but with the amount of interest they have. We just have this really stupid and destructive ghetto culture in place that teaches people not to care about getting an education because the government will give them a check and crime pays a lot more. They do it to themselves.
    It's rather difficult to get involved in your kid's school's activities when you work two jobs, neither of which are still yours if you take off time to attend a school event.

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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Obviously those who don't even try have zero chance of success.
    Yet we keep sending them checks. I know that you have wealthy kids that don't try either, but at least they're not on the taxpayer dime.
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  8. #38
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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by gunner View Post
    I think you're confusing a 'good' work ethic, with insurmountable challenges. For every 'land of opportunity' story like yours, there will be countless thousands, who had the very same, 'work ethic', but not the outcome. I'm not taking anything away from your lineage and achievements 'in the land of the free' but I would suggest its less than typical, in reality. Moreover, the 'good' schools and colleges are surely (I'm not going to suggest I'm an expert on the American education system) are beyond the reach of a certain portion of society. Some areas are so destitute, so impoverished, so crime ridden, that only miracles that happen in the movies--are the only way out. Income inequality really does have a massive baring on educational inequality, fact.
    I honestly don't see it. I don't think there's any such thing as an insurmountable challenge, where someone cannot improve their situation. Sure, they might not become a millionaire, but they can be better than they started out. Even a bad school is still better than no school at all. When these people drop out of school, when they get pregnant out of wedlock, when they try to have a family before they are financially ready for it, when they get involved in drugs and gangs and end up in prison, those are all things that are going to either negatively impact or ruin one's life. Those are bad decisions to make. If you make good decisions, if you stay in school, if you don't do things that will ruin your chances, if you get a job and keep a job and work hard, you are going to be better off than if you didn't and if you pass those lessons on to your kids and they to their kids, then your family line is going to climb out of poverty. It really isn't rocket science.
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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by ashurbanipal View Post
    It's rather difficult to get involved in your kid's school's activities when you work two jobs, neither of which are still yours if you take off time to attend a school event.
    Then maybe you shouldn't have kids until you're financially ready for it? Personal responsibility is a bitch, isn't it?
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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Wealth comes from a number of factors of which the the most important ones are 1) Intelligence 2) Drive and 3) Cultural capital. If you have all 3 you are very very likely to become wealthy. If you have none of these you are very very likley not to end up wealthier than you started and quite probably far less wealthy.

    Cultural capital is a term that refers to the cultural inheritance you get from your familly and includes attitudes to work, contacts and knowledge about 'how things really work'. My Jewish Great Grandfather arrived in the UK in 1905 from Germany. He had no money but he had intelligence and drive but he also knew where the real money was (ie the stock market) had contacts in business (from being a jew) and had the Jewish work ethic. He made enough money so that the next generation went to a Public school (which in the UK means a 'prep' school) which increased his cultural capital.

    Now get down 3 generations to me. I have intelligence in spades and cultural capital oozing out of my pores. I'm jewish but intermarriage has made me indistinguishable from the British upper Middle classes. However I have little in the way of drive ( I have adhad) so I joined the Army instead of making a fortune ( I have 4 siblings so expecting to live off inheritance is not an option) however when I finally got to finishing my 22 years public service I had even more contacts and was able to use my cultural Capital to start a new business and I had gained a little more drive in my time.

    Intelligence I inherited. the left may whine about it but quite clearly it is genetic. Drive i am not sure of. Cultural capital is clearly environmental but it is inherited socially rather than genetically.


    If you took all the kids from my background and forced them to go to state schools then all that would happen was that our collective parents would have made sure that our local state school was very well funded with 'donations' and we still would have used our cultural capital and the end result would have been the same.

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