View Poll Results: Economic Disparity = Education Inequality?

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    40 83.33%
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    8 16.67%
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Thread: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

  1. #11
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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    True, but people who don't even put on their uniform have no chance whatsoever and that's the reason a lot of poor people are poor generation after generation. They don't even try.
    I think that is more rare than many think. The majority of families in poverty are working jobs that keep them in poverty, cannot find work, or are unable to work. There are plenty of people who are just lazy, but that applies to the rich as well. The majority of people who do work hard and bust their asses for years dont get rich. And there are plenty of rich who are lazy as **** and and are living off the hard work of others.
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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by gunner View Post
    Sometimes, those odds are stacked against someone so massively in height, breadth and depth; it doesn't matter what they do, the odds are insurmountable. So it's not necessarily about lack of effort.
    But they're not. The reason so many schools in poor neighborhoods are bad is because the parents don't care. They don't get involved. They don't care about education. They don't instill a love of learning in their children. Most kids drop out before they graduate high school. None of that has anything to do with the amount of money someone has, but with the amount of interest they have. We just have this really stupid and destructive ghetto culture in place that teaches people not to care about getting an education because the government will give them a check and crime pays a lot more. They do it to themselves.
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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    I think that is more rare than many think. The majority of families in poverty are working jobs that keep them in poverty, cannot find work, or are unable to work. There are plenty of people who are just lazy, but that applies to the rich as well. The majority of people who do work hard and bust their asses for years dont get rich. And there are plenty of rich who are lazy as **** and and are living off the hard work of others.
    But they are unable to work or unable to find good jobs because they lack the job skills that they should have learned in school or in simple jobs starting out. They lack a work ethic. They lack basic responsibility. Just showing up on time, working hard and going above and beyond the call of duty is enough to work your way up the ladder, yet many poor people cannot even manage that, they remain in the same job for years and years and years because they lack both the drive and the skill to move up. And yes, as people move up the ladder, EVERYONE lives off the hard work of others. When you are in management, even as a manager at McDonalds, you're making a living off of the people that you supervise. The better job you do at supervising them, making them efficient and hard-working, the more money you make and the farther you go.

    Not sure why this is so hard for people to understand.
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  4. #14
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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by TSAE View Post
    Studies have shown that children coming from families of the top 10% of income generally had better test scores than children from the the lower 90% of income. Not only do they generally have better test scores, but also are much more likely to get into an elite college. For decades, parents from higher income families spend an exponential amount of money on learning expense for their children. These numbers are only increasing, possibly giving children from lower income families a massive disadvantage.

    So my questions to you guys--the Debate Politics community--are:

    Could the possible increase in educational inequality of children of different social classes be due to the wide economic disparity that we have today between the rich and the poor?

    Do you think there should be more elite educational programs for children of the lower class?

    Also, what other factors could possibly be involved?

    Growing wealth gap may threaten education


    Some Other Good Reads:
    Money Makes A Difference, Even In Kindergarten
    Inequality among students rises - Business - The Boston Globe
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/10/ed...dies-show.html

    I had this discussion with a man I worked for that was worth $200 million, thirty years ago. He had a worthless, drunk, drugged, son that was going off to college. My boss got him in a very expensive, prestigious college and I asked him if he wasn't wasting his money because the kid was going to flunk out or screw up out. He agreed that was the likely scenario, but added that he sent him to that school hoping if he got through one or two semesters, he would meet other sons and daughters of wealthy parents and some of them would become business partners for the rest of the kid's life. My boss didn't show any concern whatsoever for education value of the investment. I think my boss was right and that is why people go to Harvard, Yale, Wharton , etc. See where most USA President's have gone to college for the last 100 years. It's not about passing grades or education, but meeting the right people.

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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    But they are unable to work or unable to find good jobs because they lack the job skills that they should have learned in school or in simple jobs starting out. They lack a work ethic. They lack basic responsibility. Just showing up on time, working hard and going above and beyond the call of duty is enough to work your way up the ladder, yet many poor people cannot even manage that, they remain in the same job for years and years and years because they lack both the drive and the skill to move up. And yes, as people move up the ladder, EVERYONE lives off the hard work of others. When you are in management, even as a manager at McDonalds, you're making a living off of the people that you supervise. The better job you do at supervising them, making them efficient and hard-working, the more money you make and the farther you go.

    Not sure why this is so hard for people to understand.
    This is complete ignorance on your part. You clearly have no grasp on reality.

    In order to get a quality education you need money. In order to make money you need a quality education. There are rare exceptions but largely that holds true. This becomes more and more true with each generation. There are millions trapped in poverty who go to work every day, they work hard, they are intelligent, but they are not given a chance to move up beyond a certain point because they lack the education. The education that they are intelligent enough to get, the education that they have the work ethic to achieve, but they cant obtain because their parents were poor. And since they cant move up beyond a certain point their kids are stuck in the same cycle.

    Your idea that poor people stay poor because they dont show up to work on time or dont work hard is rediculous. Just because you can state ****ty stereotypes from inside your little box doesn't make that garbage true. Most positions that pay well enough to escape poverty require degrees.
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    Stephen R. Covey


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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    But they're not. The reason so many schools in poor neighborhoods are bad is because the parents don't care. They don't get involved. They don't care about education. They don't instill a love of learning in their children. Most kids drop out before they graduate high school. None of that has anything to do with the amount of money someone has, but with the amount of interest they have. We just have this really stupid and destructive ghetto culture in place that teaches people not to care about getting an education because the government will give them a check and crime pays a lot more. They do it to themselves.
    You view the topic in a dichotomous manner, and this is simply wrong. You do not necessarily have 'two' distinct camps. There are many poor people from all over the world, who value education very highly--more so than the privileged ivy league grad who has been handed everything on a plate--because for that poor person, their whole future, and the future or their family may depend on their attainment. In addition, you fail to consider the overbearing nature of: depravity, crime, hopelessness etc.

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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    People who are born on third base obviously have a much better chance of scoring.
    [/thread]
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  8. #18
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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    In order to get a quality education you need money. In order to make money you need a quality education. There are rare exceptions but largely that holds true. This becomes more and more true with each generation. There are millions trapped in poverty who go to work every day, they work hard, they are intelligent, but they are not given a chance to move up beyond a certain point because they lack the education. The education that they are intelligent enough to get, the education that they have the work ethic to achieve, but they cant obtain because their parents were poor. And since they cant move up beyond a certain point their kids are stuck in the same cycle.
    Any education is better than no education. Even a low-quality education is better than no education at all. It isn't going to take a single generation to end poverty, any more than it took a single generation for the poor to get where they are. To think otherwise is idiotic. However, the drop-out rate in most poor neighborhoods is in the neighborhood of 50%. You can't expect to get an education of any kind if you won't sit your butt in the damn classroom and learn. It's a process. It's not magic. It will take time, with each successive generation getting a little better off than their parents. Only a moron thinks it will be an instantaneous thing.
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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by gunner View Post
    You view the topic in a dichotomous manner, and this is simply wrong. You do not necessarily have 'two' distinct camps. There are many poor people from all over the world, who value education very highly--more so than the privileged ivy league grad who has been handed everything on a plate--because for that poor person, their whole future, and the future or their family may depend on their attainment. In addition, you fail to consider the overbearing nature of: depravity, crime, hopelessness etc.
    There aren't just two points on a line, it's a continuum. We can't talk about people around the world, we can only talk about people in countries where we have the schools, open and available for people to go to. People have to be willing to do whatever it takes to get ahead. My parents weren't wealthy by any means but they worked their asses off to get me into good schools and pushed me to succeed. I worked my ass off and got good grades and did more than was expected. When I could work, I worked multiple jobs to make money to pay for my own college. I didn't get a single loan and my parents didn't pay a penny of it. I did it on my own because education was important to me. I am doing far better than my parents ever did in life and my kids will be doing better than my wife and I are.

    Nobody said life was easy. Getting ahead means hard work and making good decisions. People who do, succeed. People who don't, fail.
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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    There aren't just two points on a line, it's a continuum. We can't talk about people around the world, we can only talk about people in countries where we have the schools, open and available for people to go to. People have to be willing to do whatever it takes to get ahead. My parents weren't wealthy by any means but they worked their asses off to get me into good schools and pushed me to succeed. I worked my ass off and got good grades and did more than was expected. When I could work, I worked multiple jobs to make money to pay for my own college. I didn't get a single loan and my parents didn't pay a penny of it. I did it on my own because education was important to me. I am doing far better than my parents ever did in life and my kids will be doing better than my wife and I are.

    Nobody said life was easy. Getting ahead means hard work and making good decisions. People who do, succeed. People who don't, fail.
    What about the people who work hard and make good decisions but lose everything to a random act of chance?
    "If you can't stand the way this place is, Take yourself to higher places!"
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