View Poll Results: Economic Disparity = Education Inequality?

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    40 83.33%
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Thread: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by TSAE View Post
    Studies have shown that children coming from families of the top 10% of income generally had better test scores than children from the the lower 90% of income. Not only do they generally have better test scores, but also are much more likely to get into an elite college. For decades, parents from higher income families spend an exponential amount of money on learning expense for their children. These numbers are only increasing, possibly giving children from lower income families a massive disadvantage.

    So my questions to you guys--the Debate Politics community--are:

    Could the possible increase in educational inequality of children of different social classes be due to the wide economic disparity that we have today between the rich and the poor?

    Do you think there should be more elite educational programs for children of the lower class?

    Also, what other factors could possibly be involved?

    Growing wealth gap may threaten education


    Some Other Good Reads:
    Money Makes A Difference, Even In Kindergarten
    Inequality among students rises - Business - The Boston Globe
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/10/ed...dies-show.html
    You are missing the forest for the trees (as so many who harp on inequality do).

    People who make better choices do better. Better choices in life including education, jobs, staying out of jail, etc.

    This is directly tied to improved outcomes (which is where you are incorrectly looking at things).

    If you were really interested in improving things-you'd advocate for marriage-single marriage is the biggest predictor of poverty and poverty leads to diminished outcomes. Poverty leads to less parenting time, less academic performance, etc and in that leads to diminished outcomes.

    Instead, you seek to target those who are doing what they SHOULD be doing, this is merely a consequence of that.

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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    You are missing the forest for the trees (as so many who harp on inequality do).

    People who make better choices do better. Better choices in life including education, jobs, staying out of jail, etc.

    This is directly tied to improved outcomes (which is where you are incorrectly looking at things).

    If you were really interested in improving things-you'd advocate for marriage-single marriage is the biggest predictor of poverty and poverty leads to diminished outcomes. Poverty leads to less parenting time, less academic performance, etc and in that leads to diminished outcomes.

    Instead, you seek to target those who are doing what they SHOULD be doing, this is merely a consequence of that.
    No. You're missing the point. Some people have better choices from the start than other people do, so they are guaranteed to make a better choice from the beginning. If your choices are work your ass off for 20 years til you can get enough money to go to college then work more or simply have some crappy job, vs. get sent to Harvard or UCLA by mommy and daddy, where you can do the bare minimum work and still gain connections to get a good job or invest in stocks and other such money making adventures, to live off of, then that is a completely different set of choices available to people.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Some differences in rich and poor habits
    http://www.daveramsey.com/blog/20-th...h-do-every-day

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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No. You're missing the point. Some people have better choices from the start than other people do, so they are guaranteed to make a better choice from the beginning. If your choices are work your ass off for 20 years til you can get enough money to go to college then work more or simply have some crappy job, vs. get sent to Harvard or UCLA by mommy and daddy, where you can do the bare minimum work and still gain connections to get a good job or invest in stocks and other such money making adventures, to live off of, then that is a completely different set of choices available to people.
    Using the ultra wealthy who can buy their way into (or out of) anything is not useful as a point of comparison, because the percentage of people with that much wealth and power is very very small, thus yet are exceptional cases, not representative ones. The more insightful comparison is between the average high functioning middle class family and the average lower class low functioning family. The differences in behaviors, family norms, routines, etc. between the two reveals why this is sometimes intergenerational and lasts for many generations. Giving poor families more money or excusing them from paying for things does not address the fact that their family dynamics ingrain dysfunction into the children, who will repeat the patterns later. And yes, obviously this puts them at a profound disadvantage, but there's no way to stamp that out with welfare programs. Changing ingrained learned dysfunction has to come at least partly from within them somehow. Society can offer some forms of help but there is a fine line between help and enabling, and our society is too far across that line toward the enabling side, in my opinion.

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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Using the ultra wealthy who can buy their way into (or out of) anything is not useful as a point of comparison, because the percentage of people with that much wealth and power is very very small, thus yet are exceptional cases, not representative ones. The more insightful comparison is between the average high functioning middle class family and the average lower class low functioning family. The differences in behaviors, family norms, routines, etc. between the two reveals why this is sometimes intergenerational and lasts for many generations. Giving poor families more money or excusing them from paying for things does not address the fact that their family dynamics ingrain dysfunction into the children, who will repeat the patterns later. And yes, obviously this puts them at a profound disadvantage, but there's no way to stamp that out with welfare programs. Changing ingrained learned dysfunction has to come at least partly from within them somehow. Society can offer some forms of help but there is a fine line between help and enabling, and our society is too far across that line toward the enabling side, in my opinion.
    It isn't just the uberwealthy though. If your family has enough to pay for your college, that means that you have an advantage over anybody whose family doesn't simply from the fact that someone who doesn't is going to have to work harder than you, and likely start their lives with more debt than you based solely on where they started from.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It isn't just the uberwealthy though. If your family has enough to pay for your college, that means that you have an advantage over anybody whose family doesn't simply from the fact that someone who doesn't is going to have to work harder than you, and likely start their lives with more debt than you based solely on where they started from.
    Well of course. Some of those issues are due to the rising cost of higher education. In this dawn of the age of the Internet, complete with streaming video and information accessible from everywhere, we need to be finding ways to make higher education less expensive. But that's another discussion.

    It's true that unless or until that happens, parents wanting to be able to provide the advantage to their children of having no debt after college need to save somewhere in the neighborhood of $40,000 per child. For a family with two children, that's about $4500 a year for 18 years. That's a lot of money to save, but that's the deal. Or here's another idea. When the children move out because they've gone to college, sell the house and downsize, taking the proceeds and apply it toward your children's education.

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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No. You're missing the point. Some people have better choices from the start than other people do, so they are guaranteed to make a better choice from the beginning.
    First of all there aren't any guarantees in life.

    Secondly, inequality exists EVERYWHERE, its a BASELINE and always has been, even in communist nations. You aren't going to solve things by tearing down those who are better off, you are fundamentally approaching this incorrectly. Life is unfair-thats reality. Any failure to recognize this and move on is yours (and marxisms) alone.

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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    First of all there aren't any guarantees in life.

    Secondly, inequality exists EVERYWHERE, its a BASELINE and always has been, even in communist nations. You aren't going to solve things by tearing down those who are better off, you are fundamentally approaching this incorrectly. Life is unfair-thats reality. Any failure to recognize this and move on is yours (and marxisms) alone.
    No, we should be working to make it more fair, not simply "accepting" it. I'm not even saying that people should have the same outcome in life, but they should have many of the same options available to them so that they have a chance to succeed.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Well of course. Some of those issues are due to the rising cost of higher education. In this dawn of the age of the Internet, complete with streaming video and information accessible from everywhere, we need to be finding ways to make higher education less expensive. But that's another discussion.

    It's true that unless or until that happens, parents wanting to be able to provide the advantage to their children of having no debt after college need to save somewhere in the neighborhood of $40,000 per child. For a family with two children, that's about $4500 a year for 18 years. That's a lot of money to save, but that's the deal. Or here's another idea. When the children move out because they've gone to college, sell the house and downsize, taking the proceeds and apply it toward your children's education.
    Not everyone has their own house. Most poor people rent. Kind of hard to sell what you don't own.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Kids from rich families are more likely to succeed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabanist View Post
    Some differences in rich and poor habits
    20 Things the Rich Do Every Day - daveramsey.com
    Instead of seeking to emulate the habits that make people successful, the marxists amongst us would rather demonize the successful. Eating the rich never works.

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