View Poll Results: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

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  • Yes.

    9 12.16%
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Thread: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

  1. #1
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    Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    So, you know the question....Are you willing to lie to push your agenda? Will you answer truthfully? I know thats an ironic thing to ask for this particular poll but I'm hoping that since the poll won't be public and not aimed at any particular agenda people will actually be emboldened enough to do so.

    Note: This is one of the VERY FEW polls that I will EVER make that is not public.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    So, you know the question....Are you willing to lie to push your agenda? Will you answer truthfully? I know thats an ironic thing to ask for this particular poll but I'm hoping that since the poll won't be public and not aimed at any particular agenda people will actually be emboldened enough to do so.

    Note: This is one of the VERY FEW polls that I will EVER make that is not public.
    I would have lied to get Jews out of concentration camps, free slaves, and stop wars (Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.) because they were the greater evil. I do my best to honestly debate and use facts, and hard evidence, but when the state inprisions people for smoking a type of vegetation, or not chipping in to a welfare program (pay taxes) by the threat of government force, I would lie to stop that.

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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    I don't have an agenda and I'm only interested in presenting the reality as it is.

    If I have to rank the 3 top topics I'm interested in:
    -Climate Change -> I don't have to lie. NASA and tons of govt agencies in all the civilized world is on my side of the argument. Or rather, I echo what they say about climate change.

    -The unintegrability of muslims in Europe: I don't have to lie. It is self-evident. From the tons of crimes that they commit in both organized and individual fashion to the wave of jihadists, all of them fueled by cultural-religious motives, there is just 1 correct answer and that is that muslims cannot be integrated in western society by the numbers that they are now. Sure, small numbers, in the thousands per million of population could be integrated with some success, but the moment you allow for even the smallest of muslim enclaves and allow that cultural-religious enviroment to exist, the people there become unintegratable.

    -Covering the EU democratic deficit and structural chaos. Basically I'm an euroskeptic and I don't think the EU can continue with these problems. It has to reform. More possibility to vote directly on electing individuals. Make the EU parliament bicameral and put it to mixed member proportional representation. Give it actual legislative powers. Make the EU Comission head electable by the people and not appointed by the EU Council. And strip the EU comission of legislative powers.

    I don't have to be dishonest, I just have to not let the people who counter my arguments to be dishonest and blame things on what they aren't.
    In the case of climate change, the dishonesty comes from rhetoric like:
    -consensus doesn't mean truth ------ presenting pseudoscience which isn't science, pseudo=false ------- ignoring the actual data ---- They're basically trying to flip the mountain on it's axis by use of a toothpick.

    In the case of muslim unintegrability, the common rhetoric that fails on it's ass is:
    -Oh, it's just economic factors -> no it isn't. The iraqi christians who are refugees aren't doing the same level of crime. It's not socio-economics.
    -The numbers are too small to count -> they're not too small to count. When it comes to individual lives, it takes just 1 loonatic to blow up dozens. Sure, the country will live on, for while, but those dozens of people won't. What if it is you or me? And you can't prevent loonatics from blowing themselves up. You can't take basic avoidance lessons like crossing the street because they're camoflaged among the population. They don't wear a bomb sign over their head.
    -We just need to integrate them better. There is no method, we tried everything and it doesn't work. If education, which is free, doesn't integrate people, then nothing will. And it doesn't work. The terrorist acts are mostly done by educated people so if anything, it seems that giving them an education leads them to be more farther from away from integration.

    In the case of the EU, the common rhetoric from pro-EU people is something like:
    -Aggression: oh, you're just a euroskeptic that hates democracy. That means you're with UKIP or Le Pen or some fascist group. These people cannot understand that my criticism towards the EU is out of love for democracy and I want to see the EU democracy be better than national democracy so that it becomes something to strive for. Otherwise, it will never survive.
    -Brushing off criticism: Oh, you just don't understand how it works. Oh, you are just exaggerating things. Oh, this isn't up to the EU, it's national govts that are to blame, etc. No, stop pulling rabbits out of the hat. This isn't some kids show. This is real life. And the democratic deficit won't go away because you're brushing it off. And neither will the economic structural deficits go away because you wish it. We have to face the facts.
    -Fearmongering and avoiding the question: We need the EU to exist so that Europe can be competitive and to be able to talk on even terms with China or to withstand the bullying of Russia.
    This is true. The EU has to exist. But again, does the way things are seem like the EU is working? Oh, no, that's the fault of national governments, not the EU... BS. It's all interconnected. The problem with this argument is that while it is true, the method to making the EU exist further is to reform it. Not to keep it as it is.

    Point is. Stop being dishonest in order to preserve some wierd stupid idea. Whether it's the cult of climate change deniers, the cult of multi-culti who hate the society that gave them everything so much that they'll do anything to kill it, or the europhiles who are blind to the EU's faults as if they were in love... time to wake up and give some tough love to the EU-> reform or die. There is no alternative.

    EDIT: Would I be willing to lie? I mean, I don't have to for the topics I posted, but would I be willing to? It depends on the issue.
    On a scientific issue, never.
    On a social issue... it depends on the issue. I am not above lying for personal gains, after all ,the man who doesn't lie is nothing but a child, but online I have nothing personal to gain. I don't make money or prestige or gain invaluable knowledge from this activity and many others that I do online for recreation or entertainment. So no, I wouldn't lie for anything that could be discussed online.
    Last edited by Rainman05; 10-07-14 at 05:07 AM.

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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    So, you know the question....Are you willing to lie to push your agenda? Will you answer truthfully? I know thats an ironic thing to ask for this particular poll but I'm hoping that since the poll won't be public and not aimed at any particular agenda people will actually be emboldened enough to do so.

    Note: This is one of the VERY FEW polls that I will EVER make that is not public.
    No. And it is often a problem.

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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    PS:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    ...
    Note: This is one of the VERY FEW polls that I will EVER make that is not public.
    Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?


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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    So, you know the question....Are you willing to lie to push your agenda? Will you answer truthfully? I know thats an ironic thing to ask for this particular poll but I'm hoping that since the poll won't be public and not aimed at any particular agenda people will actually be emboldened enough to do so.

    Note: This is one of the VERY FEW polls that I will EVER make that is not public.
    Like most things, it depends on context. Also, what you mean by 'agenda'. Like, would I lie to help get a politician elected? Probably not, but it depends on who is running for office, and what office they are running for. Would I lie to save a loved one from hardship or discomfort? Without a second thought. Would I lie to save my own ass? No, probably not. Etc etc.

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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    So, you know the question....Are you willing to lie to push your agenda? Will you answer truthfully? I know thats an ironic thing to ask for this particular poll but I'm hoping that since the poll won't be public and not aimed at any particular agenda people will actually be emboldened enough to do so.

    Note: This is one of the VERY FEW polls that I will EVER make that is not public.
    No.

    Because I like to think that my only agenda is finding solutions and stances on issues based on truthful evaluation of facts and a certain set of values, not ideology. No agenda beyond that.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Would I lie about someone getting my order wrong at a fast food joint in order to get free stuff? I haven't done it yet which kinda surprises me considering the number of people I know who have done it.
    Trump Attacked A Syrian Airfield. Trump will be a one-term president.

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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    No. I wouldn't.

    This is the question of whether or not the ends justify the means. My position on that has always been that if the neans required are deceitful, then the ends are illigitimate and undesirable. Lies always eventually result in destructiveness to one degree or another.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    So, you know the question....Are you willing to lie to push your agenda? Will you answer truthfully? I know thats an ironic thing to ask for this particular poll but I'm hoping that since the poll won't be public and not aimed at any particular agenda people will actually be emboldened enough to do so.

    Note: This is one of the VERY FEW polls that I will EVER make that is not public.
    In the Army we don't say it's a lie, we say "there's a better way to answer that question".

    My primary agenda is to see my children, and yes I have before, frequently, and will again lie right to my ex's face. I told her early on in the divorce process that I would not act in good faith towards her, and I don't. When she gets upset at me I freely admit that I lied to get my way.

    Whenever I'm in a job interview, it's a run-on lie start to finish. I've deliberately re-phrased and mischaracterized my resume and work history to fit a narrative which is not literally true but sells me in a better way by covering up some mistakes I've made.

    When my agenda is to have fun, I will agree to a game's EULA and ToS, and, if it suits me, almost immediately brake a certain rule against buying game currency for real money from a 3rd party, so as to gain an advantage over other players. I know how to get away with it, I know that if caught the company rarely gives a serious infraction, and I know that if I get a serious infraction that I need to have a back-up account standing by so my entertainment in the game isn't interrupted by a punishment.

    I'll tell my boys his drawing is really good when in fact it's crap; no point in hurting his feelings over something trivial. When I sign a no-gun policy to get the job and then carry anyway because my safety is more important to me than the company's liability insurance. When I set cruse-control 5-10mph above the limit.

    So yeah, I'm open to telling a mis-truth to serve my agenda.

    ***
    Politically, I piss more people off by telling the truth, and that's more fun, so I don't lie.
    Last edited by Jerry; 10-07-14 at 06:29 AM.

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