• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 6 9.0%
  • No.

    Votes: 61 91.0%

  • Total voters
    67
The problem here is the age old question of "what is truth"

I would imagine that the great majority of active participants on this forum believe that they are pushing the truth, even though there are a huge number of disagreements on any number of topics.

I know I don't have any motivation to lie, yet I get accused of doing just that from time to time and I suspect that I am far from being alone in this experience.

In order for someone to lie, they have to believe that what they are saying is untrue, when reasonable people differing on opinions is by far the easier and more likely explanation.

The truth is that thing that no matter what it is subjected to, always returns the same answer.

Which is why the only kind of truth that there can be is scientific truth. well, things in the world of technology.

Socially, so in social issues, there is no truth, no ultimate truth at least. That doesn't mean that everything goes, it just means that there are better or worse responses to any given situation.
 
This is a really interesting poll question. In today's digital age, you're basically taking your life in your hands by lying to promote your agenda, so to speak, if you're a politician or a pundit. On October 7, 1978, someone could try to make the claim that the unemployment rate was higher under Eisenhower than under Carter, and good luck getting the information you need on the fly to refute it. You'd have to go down to the BLS archive room, and by then, time would lapse. Now you can pick up information to refute a lie in a matter of minutes, so people are far less inclined to do it.

I've lied to promote my personal agendas. I once coordinated the effort to steal a dog who was being neglected from her owner's garage, and when asked if I knew where she was, I looked people in the eye and said that I had no idea. Not my finest hour but my agenda was getting her to a safe place, so in that case, my lie had a positive purpose. That probably isn't the type of thing you're asking about but it comes to mind that sometimes a lie serves a good purpose. Mostly, it doesn't.

Facts and data can be pesky things for those who want to lie.
 
The truth is that thing that no matter what it is subjected to, always returns the same answer.

Which is why the only kind of truth that there can be is scientific truth. well, things in the world of technology.

Socially, so in social issues, there is no truth, no ultimate truth at least. That doesn't mean that everything goes, it just means that there are better or worse responses to any given situation.

Just because there is a "truth" on a particular question doesn't mean that everybody, or just a few, or just anybody is seeing it.

In political debate, there are often simply differences in values, and since ethical/moral convictions are neither "true" nor "false", the only question is whether the people basing their arguments on them are consistent. Two people can accordingly both be "right", yet disagree.

And when there is so much conflicting information about different facts, it is often very difficult to get an idea which side is right. It doesn't need to be lying when two people disagree on facts. They just have different sources, and usually, both sides are incapable of verifying them.
 
I think some people lying with thir votes in this poll,
 
Awhile back I was retelling a story to my wife of a conversation I had had with my boss at the time. I don't remember how I said it exactly but I remember my wife's summation.

She said "Honey?!?!? YOU SAID THAT?"

"What?"

She says "You just basically told him 'Hey, I'm gonna be honest with ya, I'll be honest with ya until ya piss me off. Then I'm not gonna be honest with ya.'"

I said, "Yeah, that was pretty much the gist..."
 
Just because there is a "truth" on a particular question doesn't mean that everybody, or just a few, or just anybody is seeing it.

In political debate, there are often simply differences in values, and since ethical/moral convictions are neither "true" nor "false", the only question is whether the people basing their arguments on them are consistent. Two people can accordingly both be "right", yet disagree.

And when there is so much conflicting information about different facts, it is often very difficult to get an idea which side is right. It doesn't need to be lying when two people disagree on facts. They just have different sources, and usually, both sides are incapable of verifying them.

And sometimes there is no right answer that pleases everyone and we pick the lies and make them the truth.

In scientific issues this is usually solved as the puzzle becomes more full in picture. In other words, the spaces that are unknown can be filled with theories and those can change what people think about an issue, but when everything and every piece of the puzzle is filled, the image is complete and everyone can be on the same page.

In social issues, or politics, it's never that simple. There will never be a complete puzzle solved on any issue that we can lay to rest. Because we create them. We define their parameters and what they're meant to do. And at any point, anyone can come and say that the puzzle is incomplete or that the image we created, so what the puzzle produces, is the wrong one and that he has a better one. And it may be true or not... it may be true for some people and false for others. It depends what we want. I'm basically just reinforcing what I think it is you wanted to say.
 
So, you know the question....Are you willing to lie to push your agenda? Will you answer truthfully? I know thats an ironic thing to ask for this particular poll but I'm hoping that since the poll won't be public and not aimed at any particular agenda people will actually be emboldened enough to do so.

Note: This is one of the VERY FEW polls that I will EVER make that is not public.

To lie to push an agenda comes down to intention. We would more fun with this conversation if we included all the times one may have to lie to ensure an outcome, perhaps in life and death terms.
 
So, you know the question....Are you willing to lie to push your agenda? Will you answer truthfully?

No. What if I claim to be a disinterested knower, and thus without an agenda. Would you think I'm lying?

“If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything.” ― Mark Twain

Iow, liars, in order to be effective, need a good memory. Imo, I don't have a good enough memory to be a good liar.

My dad credits Mark Twain with another saying, "The truth is never so good it can't be improved upon. "
 
So, you know the question....Are you willing to lie to push your agenda? Will you answer truthfully? I know thats an ironic thing to ask for this particular poll but I'm hoping that since the poll won't be public and not aimed at any particular agenda people will actually be emboldened enough to do so.

Note: This is one of the VERY FEW polls that I will EVER make that is not public.

I have never deliberately lied to further my agenda.

I may have spoken with ignorance before, but I never deliberately lied.

Brutal honesty is something I like to have, and that goes for not only when evaluating other people, but also when I evaluate myself.
 
Americans used to agree that "... the essence of freedom is the limitation of government" - it was one of those "truths" that Americans held to be "self-evident".

As we can see from some of the responses to this poll question by our leftist friends - they do not recognize that truth; or any truth for that matter. Everything is subjective, everything is debatable.

Such people have learned nothing from history - either b/c they haven't been exposed to it, or have been indoctrinated against it. Either way, they reject things that used to be held as "self evident truths".

Since these people now make up the majority of citizens in this country - it should come as no surprise that our society is collapsing, government is growing in size and power, and liberty is slowly being killed. To be sure, "truth" was murdered long ago.
 
So, you know the question....Are you willing to lie to push your agenda? Will you answer truthfully?
I am not sure what agenda we are talking about. Other members have given answers based on certain situations. Please clarify.
If we are talking about posting here, I wonder if, or how many, have agendas? Aren't we just exchanging opinions? As such, can opinions be lies, or are we just offering our interpretation of events and situations?
I agree with the following

Just because there is a "truth" on a particular question doesn't mean that everybody, or just a few, or just anybody is seeing it.

In political debate, there are often simply differences in values, and since ethical/moral convictions are neither "true" nor "false", the only question is whether the people basing their arguments on them are consistent. Two people can accordingly both be "right", yet disagree.

And when there is so much conflicting information about different facts, it is often very difficult to get an idea which side is right. It doesn't need to be lying when two people disagree on facts. They just have different sources, and usually, both sides are incapable of verifying them.

So no, I wouldn't lie to push an agenda since I simply don't have one. I come here to read and offer opinions.



As for the personal stuff, I agree with t b as follows. If a life is to be saved, then we must adjust depending on the situation.

I've lied to promote my personal agendas. I once coordinated the effort to steal a dog who was being neglected from her owner's garage, and when asked if I knew where she was, I looked people in the eye and said that I had no idea. Not my finest hour but my agenda was getting her to a safe place, so in that case, my lie had a positive purpose. That probably isn't the type of thing you're asking about but it comes to mind that sometimes a lie serves a good purpose. Mostly, it doesn't.

Facts and data can be pesky things for those who want to lie.
 
One of the main differences between liberals and conservatives is that liberals lie to push their agenda. They base their beliefs largely on warm fuzzy feelings instead of cold hard facts and they believe that no matter what the facts show their way is the right way so if they have to lie to push their agenda so be it.
 
I lie all the time to spare people's feelings. Great poll, Kal.
 
I'm opposed to lying but stretching the truth a little isn't the same thing, right?

It's not and neither is a few strategic omissions. ;)

I voted yes incidentally, because for me to make the claim that I've never, in my life, lied to serve my own interests would be a lie.
 
Last edited:
Since Libertarianism is based on truth and logic there is no need for me to lie, I will just leave all the lying to my detractors. :mrgreen:
 
I see there are no politicians here lol c and chong.jpg
 
Politicians, by necessity, have to do more than what most people find palatable to drive an agenda forward, including omission of details and a more simplified talking point. I don't terribly fault them for it. Sometimes, however, they can go too far in it.

I have the privilege of only sometimes needing to embellish certain talking points to drive at a deeper truth in policy matters which I am attempting to impact. Normally I am able to be frank, mostly without offending any participants (they often think of me as a valued voice at the table).
 
Last edited:
No,

I do not lie to push my agenda... never have in that way. Not purposely at least... I can be wrong at times.

The only times where I lie is to avoid getting in needless pointless trouble lol.
 
No. There are far more educated people than I, and all of us have access to the internet. A lie is easily found out.
 
So, you know the question....Are you willing to lie to push your agenda? Will you answer truthfully? I know thats an ironic thing to ask for this particular poll but I'm hoping that since the poll won't be public and not aimed at any particular agenda people will actually be emboldened enough to do so.

Note: This is one of the VERY FEW polls that I will EVER make that is not public.

I had no problem answering the poll and I freely admit I, immodestly perhaps, gave it an emphatic NO!

I hope I have matured as a person sufficiently that it is not so important to me to be perceived as right than it is important to be right. And therefore, if I hold an opinion or point of view that will not stand up to honest challenge, I want to change that opinion and/or point of view. And if my agenda is flawed, and cannot withstand challenge of what I believe to be true, then I need a new agenda. And I won't manipulate or distort what I know to be true to defend it.

Frankly, I am a bit grumpy and frustrated tonight after spending too many hours on these message boards today I think. :) But I am really impatient with those who dutifully parrot the assigned lies, that cherry pick information, that pick links that seem to support something and post them without any thought that the information they post might be entirely false. I long for a grown up world in which character trumps presumed superiority, and in which truth is more important than winning and in which a desire for the whole truth is more important than snotty partisanship or ideological slogans and talking points.
 
No. I wouldn't.

This is the question of whether or not the ends justify the means. My position on that has always been that if the neans required are deceitful, then the ends are illigitimate and undesirable. Lies always eventually result in destructiveness to one degree or another.

Greetings, lizzie. :2wave:

:agree: Whoever said it's easier to tell the truth because you don't always remember what you said before sure was right! There's always the option of remaining silent, too. :thumbs:
 
No, but i'm willing to lie to watch extremists fall into hysterics on the internet. Can be quite entertaining
 
Whoever said it's easier to tell the truth because you don't always remember what you said before sure was right!
Whoever said that, doesn't know what they're talking about.

When you tell a lie, the thing you said may be false, but that you said it is an event like any other. If you can't recall that like many winisses can't accuratly recall an event gor a police report, then you just have a poor memory.

The idea that you should tell the truth because it's easier is just laziness; you're telling the truth because it's easy, not for the sake of being truthful. Sometimes the truth is hatd just to know let allone repeat, and so that person would do whatever was easy, not what is truthful.
 
Last edited:
Whoever said that, doesn't know what they're talking about.

When you tell a lie, the thing you said may be false, but that you said it is an event like any other. If you can't recall that like many winisses can't accuratly recall an event gor a police report, then you just have a poor memory.

The idea that you should tell the truth because it's easier is just laziness; you're telling the truth because it's easy, not because you should tell the truth.

Greetings, Jerry. :2wave:

Sometimes the truth can be brutal, as in "do you think I look fat in this dress," so that's why sometimes silence is better. You can always hedge by changing the subject, though, as in "I liked the one you wore the other day better." We all hedge.... :mrgreen:
 
Back
Top Bottom