View Poll Results: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

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Thread: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

  1. #51
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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Greetings, Jerry.

    Sometimes the truth can be brutal, as in "do you think I look fat in this dress," so that's why sometimes silence is better. You can always hedge by changing the subject, though, as in "I liked the one you wore the other day better." We all hedge....
    I know people like to hate on lying, but we can't live without it.

    If I ask "what is your bank account number and pin", any answer other than that information is a lie. Even not answering is a lie of omission.

    Privacy is dishonesty because you're concealing. Carrying a concealed gun or knife or pepper-sprey is dishonesty because you're keeping the knowledge of that item's presence from people.

    This forum's rules require you to be dishonest by prohibiting you from publishing personal information or your account name & password.

    Everyone is willing to accept some level of dishonesty.
    Last edited by Jerry; 10-08-14 at 12:26 AM.

  2. #52
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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    Since Libertarianism is based on truth and logic there is no need for me to lie, I will just leave all the lying to my detractors.
    Have you ever known anyone to claim their position is based on lies and hysteria?
    Last edited by Cardinal; 10-08-14 at 03:14 AM.

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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    So, you know the question....Are you willing to lie to push your agenda? Will you answer truthfully? I know thats an ironic thing to ask for this particular poll but I'm hoping that since the poll won't be public and not aimed at any particular agenda people will actually be emboldened enough to do so.

    Note: This is one of the VERY FEW polls that I will EVER make that is not public.
    The question is would I lie to serve my agenda. No, I would not lie for that. I would lie to spare someone's feelings, lie to save someone's life, etc. etc., but not for my agenda.
    Last edited by Cardinal; 10-08-14 at 03:11 AM.

  4. #54
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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I know people like to hate on lying, but we can't live without it.

    If I ask "what is your bank account number and pin", any answer other than that information is a lie. Even not answering is a lie of omission.

    Privacy is dishonesty because you're concealing. Carrying a concealed gun or knife or pepper-sprey is dishonesty because you're keeping the knowledge of that item's presence from people.

    This forum's rules require you to be dishonest by prohibiting you from publishing personal information or your account name & password.

    Everyone is willing to accept some level of dishonesty.
    If no one has asked about the concealed information or items, however, I can't see that it is a lie to conceal them. Nor is it a lie if you ask me my real name and I tell you that I prefer not to publish it on line in a forum like this, which is the truth. If you ask me if I have revealed all information about myself or what is on my person and I say yes, then that is a lie.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    If no one has asked about the concealed information or items, however, I can't see that it is a lie to conceal them.
    It's deception. When you conceal an item you are trying to create an impression that causes others to be misled, by not telling all the facts, or creating a false impression. When a person carried a concealed gun, they are creating the impression that they are unarmed; many supporters of CC will say things like "keep the bad guys guessing". To CC is to lie. If you partially conceal your hand as you type your ATM pin, you are lying because you are concealing the truth (what your pin # is). A non-disclosure agreement is a contract to lie. To keep something, anything, private, is to lie because you are concealing the truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Nor is it a lie if you ask me my real name and I tell you that I prefer not to publish it on line in a forum like this, which is the truth.
    That you don't want to publish your name is true, but not publishing your name, regardles of why, is a lie of omission.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    If you ask me if I have revealed all information about myself or what is on my person and I say yes, then that is a lie.
    Right, that's an overt lie.
    Last edited by Jerry; 10-08-14 at 03:23 AM.

  6. #56
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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    It's deception. When you conceal an item you are trying to create an impression that causes others to be misled, by not telling all the facts, or creating a false impression. When a person carried a concealed gun, they are creating the impression that they are unarmed; many supporters of CC will say things like "keep the bad guys guessing". To CC is to lie. If you partially conceal your hand as you type your ATM pin, you are lying because you are concealing the truth (what your pin # is). A non-disclosure agreement is a contract to lie. To keep something, anything, private, is to lie because you are concealing the truth.


    That you don't want to publish your name is true, but not publishing your name, regardles of why, is a lie of omission.


    Right, that's an overt lie.
    But Jerry, I'm sorry but not disclosing everything about yourself, your underwear, the mole on your right butt cheek, etc. etc. etc. is not lying. It is simply choosing not to disclose or not even thinking about it. Technically my concealed carry weapon is no different than the car keys and wallet in my pocket that I don't announce to everybody around me either. If we have to reveal everything about us to everybody we meet all day in order to not be lying, we would spend all our time doing just that.

    But the thread topic is not lying about ourselves but rather would we lie to accomplish what we want to happen or want to get done. Perhaps most of us have not disclosed every negative about ourselves or our work history to a prospective employer even though we know the employer would be interested and that isn't a lie either unless the employer asks us specifically and we don't tell the truth. But if I claim experience I don't have or deny a truth when asked, then that is a lie.

    When politicians intentionally omit or misrepresent the downside of a piece of legislation to get others to vote for it, or if they deliberately exaggerate or misrepresent the sins of their opponents in order to further their political ambitions, etc., then that is a lie. And people do that on message boards every single day to further their agenda of politics of personal destruction for whatever personal satisfaction that may give them.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jango View Post
    Like most things, it depends on context. Also, what you mean by 'agenda'. Like, would I lie to help get a politician elected? Probably not, but it depends on who is running for office, and what office they are running for. Would I lie to save a loved one from hardship or discomfort? Without a second thought. Would I lie to save my own ass? No, probably not. Etc etc.
    It also what is meant by lie.

    The word lie has taken on new meanings since it has been used to describe Bush and the Iraq war.

  8. #58
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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    It also what is meant by lie.

    The word lie has taken on new meanings since it has been used to describe Bush and the Iraq war.
    The long-term results of "The Big Lie!" Lies don't work. They gum up the works.

  9. #59
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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    So, you know the question....Are you willing to lie to push your agenda? Will you answer truthfully? I know thats an ironic thing to ask for this particular poll but I'm hoping that since the poll won't be public and not aimed at any particular agenda people will actually be emboldened enough to do so.

    Note: This is one of the VERY FEW polls that I will EVER make that is not public.
    I don't think it's so much lying, as I doubt people (or perhaps I'd like to think) outright lie. However, what people will do, will only present the facts that support their side of the argument. And if you are here just wanting to debate, than that's fine and part of what makes a good debater is to highlight the strengths of your argument and hide the weaknesses. However, it doesn't help at getting at the truth... or at least as close as one can get in politics. I saw someone below this mention Climate Change, one side can post what the conventional wisdom of scientist are today, however they will downplay or try and dismiss the notion that scientist don't have that great of a track record on this issue.

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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    But Jerry, I'm sorry but not disclosing everything about yourself, your underwear, the mole on your right butt cheek, etc. etc. etc. is not lying.

    It is simply choosing not to disclose or not even thinking about it. Technically my concealed carry weapon is no different than the car keys and wallet in my pocket that I don't announce to everybody around me either. If we have to reveal everything about us to everybody we meet all day in order to not be lying, we would spend all our time doing just that.

    But the thread topic is not lying about ourselves but rather would we lie to accomplish what we want to happen or want to get done. Perhaps most of us have not disclosed every negative about ourselves or our work history to a prospective employer even though we know the employer would be interested and that isn't a lie either unless the employer asks us specifically and we don't tell the truth. But if I claim experience I don't have or deny a truth when asked, then that is a lie.

    When politicians intentionally omit or misrepresent the downside of a piece of legislation to get others to vote for it, or if they deliberately exaggerate or misrepresent the sins of their opponents in order to further their political ambitions, etc., then that is a lie. And people do that on message boards every single day to further their agenda of politics of personal destruction for whatever personal satisfaction that may give them.
    Any form of covering up the truth is a lie.

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