View Poll Results: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

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  • Yes.

    9 12.16%
  • No.

    65 87.84%
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Thread: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

  1. #21
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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    There's an entire subforum dedicated to this pointless discussion. Lets not dirty up this thread with it too. I was just pointing out what my stance is on lying or being truthful.
    Hey, I gave an example of people willing to lie to push their agenda. Go play hall-monitor somewhere else.

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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    I'm opposed to lying but stretching the truth a little isn't the same thing, right?

  3. #23
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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    The problem here is the age old question of "what is truth"

    I would imagine that the great majority of active participants on this forum believe that they are pushing the truth, even though there are a huge number of disagreements on any number of topics.

    I know I don't have any motivation to lie, yet I get accused of doing just that from time to time and I suspect that I am far from being alone in this experience.

    In order for someone to lie, they have to believe that what they are saying is untrue, when reasonable people differing on opinions is by far the easier and more likely explanation.

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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Quote Originally Posted by wist43 View Post
    You brought it up - and since you "echo" what has been proven over and over again to be false - you are lying, or at least willing to deny falsification of a lie, which makes you a liar who is in denial.

    "NASA and tons of govt agencies" are just that - government agencies. Government agencies have agendas - there don't care about science or the truth about any subject. True to what government is and does, they care about protecting and advancing their own careers first, money second, and protecting their own turf third - somewhere way, way down the line is "truth".

    The NASA you are talking about is usually the spewings of a few activists with letters - most notably James Hansen - who has been exposed over and over again as willing to fabricate, i.e. lie to advance his agenda - what does that say about you, who is willing to blindly follow and repeat his lies??

    As for the rest of the AGW nonsense - if someone puts a study or theory out there, it has to be tested and attempts made to falsify it. That is how science works - actual science, not the agenda nonsense that passes for science on the subject of AGW.

    And so it goes... if you are saying that you are not intelligent enough to see through a lie, then fine - just go ahead and say you're a dummy, and that you blindly believe anything your government tells you - and b/c your gov't told you something it has to be absolute, incontovertible truth.

    Because afterall, governments don't lie, ever - do they??
    Ok.
    There are still some amazonian tribes that don't have a government. go over there and live your life free of tyranny and lies and deception.

    The government is the people. The state is the people. It doesn't exist in an abstract plains. If you think the govt is out to get you, you, as the citizen, with your rights that are guaranteed by the state, have the power to make changes legally. But staying on the internet making false claims and talking nonsense, feeding yourself in a negative loop of paranoia along with the rest of the people who share your belief, isn't how you change things.

    Yes, government aren't perfect and yes, they're corrupt. I am not going to deny that. And yes, sometimes, they keep secrets from the population at large. And that's sometimes a necessity. But it doesn't change the fact that it is still accountable to the people. The people are still the ones who have the power in a democracy. So look at yourself and you'll see you're not perfect, look at the people you vote into office and you'll see they're not perfect, and look at the people you associate with from an ideological standpoint and see that they're not perfect, then don't be amazed when things aren't perfect.

  5. #25
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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    No... but that doesn't stop others from calling you one.
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Matt. 10:32-33

  6. #26
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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Quote Originally Posted by tacomancer View Post
    The problem here is the age old question of "what is truth"

    I would imagine that the great majority of active participants on this forum believe that they are pushing the truth, even though there are a huge number of disagreements on any number of topics.

    I know I don't have any motivation to lie, yet I get accused of doing just that from time to time and I suspect that I am far from being alone in this experience.

    In order for someone to lie, they have to believe that what they are saying is untrue, when reasonable people differing on opinions is by far the easier and more likely explanation.
    The truth is that thing that no matter what it is subjected to, always returns the same answer.

    Which is why the only kind of truth that there can be is scientific truth. well, things in the world of technology.

    Socially, so in social issues, there is no truth, no ultimate truth at least. That doesn't mean that everything goes, it just means that there are better or worse responses to any given situation.

  7. #27
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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    This is a really interesting poll question. In today's digital age, you're basically taking your life in your hands by lying to promote your agenda, so to speak, if you're a politician or a pundit. On October 7, 1978, someone could try to make the claim that the unemployment rate was higher under Eisenhower than under Carter, and good luck getting the information you need on the fly to refute it. You'd have to go down to the BLS archive room, and by then, time would lapse. Now you can pick up information to refute a lie in a matter of minutes, so people are far less inclined to do it.

    I've lied to promote my personal agendas. I once coordinated the effort to steal a dog who was being neglected from her owner's garage, and when asked if I knew where she was, I looked people in the eye and said that I had no idea. Not my finest hour but my agenda was getting her to a safe place, so in that case, my lie had a positive purpose. That probably isn't the type of thing you're asking about but it comes to mind that sometimes a lie serves a good purpose. Mostly, it doesn't.

    Facts and data can be pesky things for those who want to lie.

  8. #28
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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    The truth is that thing that no matter what it is subjected to, always returns the same answer.

    Which is why the only kind of truth that there can be is scientific truth. well, things in the world of technology.

    Socially, so in social issues, there is no truth, no ultimate truth at least. That doesn't mean that everything goes, it just means that there are better or worse responses to any given situation.
    Just because there is a "truth" on a particular question doesn't mean that everybody, or just a few, or just anybody is seeing it.

    In political debate, there are often simply differences in values, and since ethical/moral convictions are neither "true" nor "false", the only question is whether the people basing their arguments on them are consistent. Two people can accordingly both be "right", yet disagree.

    And when there is so much conflicting information about different facts, it is often very difficult to get an idea which side is right. It doesn't need to be lying when two people disagree on facts. They just have different sources, and usually, both sides are incapable of verifying them.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  9. #29
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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    I think some people lying with thir votes in this poll,
    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
    Winston Churchill



    A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.
    Winston Churchill

  10. #30
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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Awhile back I was retelling a story to my wife of a conversation I had had with my boss at the time. I don't remember how I said it exactly but I remember my wife's summation.

    She said "Honey?!?!? YOU SAID THAT?"

    "What?"

    She says "You just basically told him 'Hey, I'm gonna be honest with ya, I'll be honest with ya until ya piss me off. Then I'm not gonna be honest with ya.'"

    I said, "Yeah, that was pretty much the gist..."
    "Oh no no no, you got me talkin' politics. I didn't wanna. Like I said y'all, I'm just happy to be alive. ” -- Sheriff Chris Mannix

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