View Poll Results: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

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  • Yes.

    9 12.16%
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    65 87.84%
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Thread: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

  1. #11
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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    So, you know the question....Are you willing to lie to push your agenda? Will you answer truthfully? I know thats an ironic thing to ask for this particular poll but I'm hoping that since the poll won't be public and not aimed at any particular agenda people will actually be emboldened enough to do so.

    Note: This is one of the VERY FEW polls that I will EVER make that is not public.
    There are very few reasons I would lie. The main one is on matters of life or death either an attempt to preserve life if I have nothing else to use, or to spare unneeded pain to the dying by reassuring them on their deathbed. The only other reason I would lie is to spare someone emotional trauma of certain truths they are unaware of and have no knowledge or need of.(This last is subject to change should circumstance warrant.)

    Lying for an agenda is foolish. It always comes back to bite you in the ass. Those that lie to promote their agenda personal or otherwise are shortsighted and cant see the forest though the trees. The truth no matter how painful is ALWAYS useful.

    The tricky widget is KNOWING the truth. Being able to tell fact from fiction that's a gift that not all people have and most to varying degrees. Ones mans truth is another mans lie. Even facts can lie. Discerning what is and is not is a lifetime endeavor never perfected.

    For me it is always better to tell the truth as I see it regardless the personal pain to myself and those around me. Its much simpler to deal with. It also makes dealing with being wrong about certain truths easier. It boils down to the golden rule and karma for me. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. What goes around, comes around.
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  2. #12
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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    If I have to rank the 3 top topics I'm interested in:
    -Climate Change -> I don't have to lie. NASA and tons of govt agencies in all the civilized world is on my side of the argument. Or rather, I echo what they say about climate change.
    Hahaha. Well played. You're probably lying right there. Doing the o' switcheroo there.

  3. #13
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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    By pushing one's agenda, I'm assuming you mean in debate or activism, not something like smuggling out Jews during the Holocaust as mentioned in post 2.

    No. On a lot of issues, my stance is formed by things I learn, not the other way around. So there's no reason to lie if one's stance is formed around evidence to begin with.

    On some issues, on which objective facts are either unavailable or not as heavily relevant to the ethical conclusion, again, no. If I have to lie to successfully argue my point, there's either something wrong with my argument or something wrong with my ethics.

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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    If I have to rank the 3 top topics I'm interested in:
    -Climate Change -> I don't have to lie. NASA and tons of govt agencies in all the civilized world is on my side of the argument. Or rather, I echo what they say about climate change.
    Like this gem:
    President 'has four years to save Earth'
    US must take the lead to avert eco-disaster!
    Robin McKie in New York
    The Observer, Saturday 17 January 2009

    Barack Obama has only four years to save the world. That is the stark assessment of Nasa scientist and leading climate expert Jim Hansen who last week warned only urgent action by the new president could halt the devastating climate change that now threatens Earth. Crucially, that action will have to be taken within Obama's first administration, he added.
    If AGW is not resolved by 2013, we're all going to die. That's just a fact, and NASA says so

    AGW is pure bull****. Anyone arguing in favor of AGW is necessarily lying with every word.

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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Like this gem:

    If AGW is not resolved by 2013, we're all going to die. That's just a fact, and NASA says so

    AGW is pure bull****. Anyone arguing in favor of AGW is necessarily lying with every word.
    Quote Originally Posted by recalcitrant View Post
    Hahaha. Well played. You're probably lying right there. Doing the o' switcheroo there.
    There's an entire subforum dedicated to this pointless discussion. Lets not dirty up this thread with it too. I was just pointing out what my stance is on lying or being truthful.

  6. #16
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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Meaning political agenda? No. I can see a handful on here that would, though.

    I would lie to keep from hurting someone, but generally, I don't lie about much else, so...
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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    There's an entire subforum dedicated to this pointless discussion. Lets not dirty up this thread with it too. I was just pointing out what my stance is on lying or being truthful.
    Oh I had no intention of discussing it.

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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    So, you know the question....Are you willing to lie to push your agenda? Will you answer truthfully? I know thats an ironic thing to ask for this particular poll but I'm hoping that since the poll won't be public and not aimed at any particular agenda people will actually be emboldened enough to do so.

    Note: This is one of the VERY FEW polls that I will EVER make that is not public.
    Ironically, I only rarely vote in polls that are public but would happily make an exception here. I would never lie to push any agenda, not even a teensy "white lie."

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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    No. I wouldn't.

    This is the question of whether or not the ends justify the means. My position on that has always been that if the neans required are deceitful, then the ends are illigitimate and undesirable. Lies always eventually result in destructiveness to one degree or another.
    No matter how much one rationalizes, the ends don't justify the means. I so agree with what you've posted here.

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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    There's an entire subforum dedicated to this pointless discussion. Lets not dirty up this thread with it too. I was just pointing out what my stance is on lying or being truthful.
    You brought it up - and since you "echo" what has been proven over and over again to be false - you are lying, or at least willing to deny falsification of a lie, which makes you a liar who is in denial.

    "NASA and tons of govt agencies" are just that - government agencies. Government agencies have agendas - there don't care about science or the truth about any subject. True to what government is and does, they care about protecting and advancing their own careers first, money second, and protecting their own turf third - somewhere way, way down the line is "truth".

    The NASA you are talking about is usually the spewings of a few activists with letters - most notably James Hansen - who has been exposed over and over again as willing to fabricate, i.e. lie to advance his agenda - what does that say about you, who is willing to blindly follow and repeat his lies??

    As for the rest of the AGW nonsense - if someone puts a study or theory out there, it has to be tested and attempts made to falsify it. That is how science works - actual science, not the agenda nonsense that passes for science on the subject of AGW.

    And so it goes... if you are saying that you are not intelligent enough to see through a lie, then fine - just go ahead and say you're a dummy, and that you blindly believe anything your government tells you - and b/c your gov't told you something it has to be absolute, incontovertible truth.

    Because afterall, governments don't lie, ever - do they??

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