View Poll Results: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

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  • Yes.

    9 12.16%
  • No.

    65 87.84%
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Thread: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

  1. #111
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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Definition of LYING
    : marked by or containing falsehoods : false <a lying account of the accident>
    Websters online



    Perjury
    A crime that occurs when an individual willfully makes a false statement during a judicial proceeding, after he or she has taken an oath to speak the truth.
    perjury legal definition of perjury

    Choosing not to disclose information is not lying per the dictionary and is not perjury under the law.

  2. #112
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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Choosing not to disclose information is not lying per the dictionary and is not perjury under the law.
    Choosing not to disclose information is the lie of omission.

    HowStuffWorks "The Basics of Lies"
    Different Types of Lies - Science of People

  3. #113
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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Yes, depending on the circumstances.

  4. #114
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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Here? No. In the real world? I can imagine some scenarios.

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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Choosing not to disclose information is the lie of omission.

    HowStuffWorks "The Basics of Lies"
    Different Types of Lies - Science of People
    The dictionary and the law are the definitions that matter. Scientists do not create the meanings of words that are not scientific terms. The dictionary is based on how a word is actually used, which is done by surveying a variety of written and spoken language. Not disclosing information may be dishonest in some situations, but it is not lying. Choosing not to disclose information is not even close to lying, deceit or dishonesty unless one is asked for that information. Saying "I don't want to disclose that information" when asked a question is truthful and involves no deceit.
    Last edited by Hard Truth; 10-08-14 at 10:33 PM.

  6. #116
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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    The dictionary and the law are the definitions that matter.
    No cherry-picking please. Websters and the law do matter, but this isn't a legal discussion so other material on the topic matters as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Not disclosing information may be dishonest in some situations, but it is not lying.
    Like many, you think of a lie as an overt or bold-faced lie, directly saying something that is false when you know it's false. That's only one kind of lie, though. Dishonesty is deceit so dishonesty is lying. Anything less than the pure, perfect white truth is a lie, some shade of grey.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Choosing not to disclose information is not even close to lying, deceit or dishonesty unless one is asked for that information. Saying "I don't want to disclose that information" when asked a question is truthful and involves no deceit.
    That you don't want to disclose is truthful, that you will not disclose is truthful, but the act of not disclosing is the lie; you are covering up the truth. Even when you tell the person you will not uncover the truth, you are still covering the truth, and covering the truth is a lying.
    Last edited by Jerry; 10-08-14 at 10:51 PM.

  7. #117
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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    That you don't want to disclose is truthful, that you will not disclose is truthful, but the act of not disclosing is the lie; you are covering up the truth. Even when you tell the person you will not uncover the truth, you are still covering the truth, and covering the truth is a lying.
    Your definition of "lying" is so broad as to be useless (and actually in my view harmful) in the real world. I don't think a definition that equates the act of lying about my awesome physique by wearing a shirt with me telling my wife I went fishing yesterday and instead went to see my mistress helps us understand an action or inaction at all - in fact it's harmful to our understanding.

    For example, in two distinct areas of my life, I'm prohibited from revealing certain confidences. It's just not a "lie" to adhere to ethical standards and refuse to reveal what I'm obligated to keep confidential. And when you conclude that doing so is a "lie" as you appear to do, you've so mangled the word "lie" so that is diminishes our understanding of human behavior. The "lie" in that circumstance is promising to keep information confidential, then revealing it. But in your definition, I will 'lie" whether or not I reveal the confidential information. The word cannot encompass both acts - maintaining a confidence I promised to keep AND revealing it. Of if the word "lie" does encompass both acts, it's lost all meaning.

    As to the OP, I wouldn't ever lie to advance a political agenda, such as it is. Can't see why that would ever be necessary. It would mean that I have, or express, an opinion on some matter that runs contrary to what I KNOW of the facts and evidence. When that has happened in my life, and it's happened many times, I've changed my opinion. It's why I used to consider myself a conservative and voted straight GOP for roughly 20 years, and now do not.

  8. #118
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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Your definition of "lying" is so broad as to be useless (and actually in my view harmful) in the real world. I don't think a definition that equates the act of lying about my awesome physique by wearing a shirt with me telling my wife I went fishing yesterday and instead went to see my mistress helps us understand an action or inaction at all - in fact it's harmful to our understanding.

    For example, in two distinct areas of my life, I'm prohibited from revealing certain confidences. It's just not a "lie" to adhere to ethical standards and refuse to reveal what I'm obligated to keep confidential. And when you conclude that doing so is a "lie" as you appear to do, you've so mangled the word "lie" so that is diminishes our understanding of human behavior. The "lie" in that circumstance is promising to keep information confidential, then revealing it. But in your definition, I will 'lie" whether or not I reveal the confidential information. The word cannot encompass both acts - maintaining a confidence I promised to keep AND revealing it. Of if the word "lie" does encompass both acts, it's lost all meaning.

    As to the OP, I wouldn't ever lie to advance a political agenda, such as it is. Can't see why that would ever be necessary. It would mean that I have, or express, an opinion on some matter that runs contrary to what I KNOW of the facts and evidence. When that has happened in my life, and it's happened many times, I've changed my opinion. It's why I used to consider myself a conservative and voted straight GOP for roughly 20 years, and now do not.
    I didn't define lying. It is what it is.

  9. #119
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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    I suspect that a good number of the vast majority who said NO would gladly use a highly selective variation of what the TRUTH is based on their own personal belief system. They would not see it as lying but it is not completely honest just the same.
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  10. #120
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    Re: Are you willing to lie to push your agenda?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I suspect that a good number of the vast majority who said NO would gladly use a highly selective variation of what the TRUTH is based on their own personal belief system. They would not see it as lying but it is not completely honest just the same.
    Bingo! Spoken like a true expert on the subject.
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