View Poll Results: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

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  • Yes

    15 20.00%
  • No

    59 78.67%
  • Not sure

    1 1.33%
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Thread: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

  1. #961
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    debate cannot exist when one poster refuses to use commonly accepted terms ....
    yeah - like those in the dictionary after dictionary after dictionary.

    and debate fails when one poster constantly leaves himself wiggle room so he can change his position when it gets thrashed.
    You replied to my post so I guess you are attacking my posts with that comment. Lets see a position I changed after "it got trashed". Do present it. But you won't. Never do when I challenge you to back up these sort of broad and overly general statements with actually verifiable evidence.

    and debate is a joke when one side demands the other side produce proof that the demanding side never ever attempts to meet.
    Again Turtle - Lets see a post I made where I refused to present evidence of a statement of claimed fact that I presented. Do present it. But you won't. Never do when I challenge you to back up these sort of broad and overly general statements with actually verifiable evidence.
    Last edited by haymarket; 10-19-14 at 02:59 PM.
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  2. #962
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    yeah - like those in the dictionary after dictionary after dictionary.



    You replied to my post so I guess you are attacking my posts with that comment. Lets see a position I changed after "it got trashed". Do present it. But you won't. Never do when I challenge you to back up these sort of broad and overly general statements with actually verifiable evidence.



    Again Turtle - Lets see a post I made where I refused to present evidence of a statement of claimed fact that I presented. Do present it. But you won't. Never do when I challenge you to back up these sort of broad and overly general statements with actually verifiable evidence.
    how many times have you refused to answer a question as to say how the supreme court ought to rule on a case that most likely will com before it

    how many times have you pretended that clear statutory language (CIVILIAN LAW ENFORCEMENT officials or officers) is not controlling but parlance reported by a dictionary is

    how many times have you ignored the plain language of the second amendment while pretending that things like the militia clause actually and patently says the federal government has the power to regulate privately owned firearms

    and you know damn well that the search engine on this site requires people to search hundreds of posts on a thread to find something



  3. #963
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I am not conversing with the ghost of Madison. I want your view on it.
    its very clear, and i will use Madison's own words.... for my own.


    Here is the most satisfactory and authentic proof that the several amendments proposed were to be considered as either declaratory or restrictive

  4. #964
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    how many times have you refused to answer a question as to say how the supreme court ought to rule on a case that most likely will com before it
    Lets get this straight Turtle. I will always be perfectly willing to provide evidence to any claim of fact I make on this board in a discussion with you or anyone else. Are we clear on that?

    If you or anyone else wants to go on a hypothetical fishing trip posing me questions as part of a tactic of diversion about a case which is not yet to be decided - that sort of nonsense is merely a diversionary tactic that more properly belongs in the Land of Hypothetical Speculation and serves no rational purpose in debate.

    Go back and read your statement to see how pointless it is. You actually want me to pontificate about an event that has not even happened yet? And you call that debate? And when somebody does not comment about this hypothetical event which has not yet happened - you think it is some great cause to rally around? Amazing!!!!

    I debated for two years in college and not once in rebuttal did the other side ever ask my side to answer a question about an event which had not yet happened.

    When I ask you to support YOUR OWN CLAIMS AND STATEMENT OF CLAIMED FACT that is an entirely different thing altogether and to compare one to the other is simply ridiculous and without any intellectual foundation.

    how many times have you pretended that clear statutory language (CIVILIAN LAW ENFORCEMENT officials or officers) is not controlling but parlance reported by a dictionary is
    First, you have NEVER presented any law either federal or state which defines cops performing their job in the USA as civilians. So please flush this claim about clear statutory language because there is none.
    Second, your argument about this "parlance' that you call it is YOUR ARGUMENT. It has NEVER BEEN MINE in any way shape or form. But feel free to bring forth the verifiable evidence which says otherwise. But you will not.



    how many times have you ignored the plain language of the second amendment while pretending that things like the militia clause actually and patently says the federal government has the power to regulate privately owned firearms
    That is a difference of opinion about the Second Amendment that divides millions of people on this issue. For you to pretend that I have not supported my position is simply engaging in a blatant falsehood. I have never IGNORED the language as you just charged. I have always dealt with it head on. But feel free to bring forth the verifiable evidence which says otherwise. But you will not.

    and you know damn well that the search engine on this site requires people to search hundreds of posts on a thread to find something
    I will be happy to teach you how to use it as I have no problem finding the evidence I want when questioned.
    Last edited by haymarket; 10-19-14 at 03:30 PM.
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    its very clear, and i will use Madison's own words.... for my own.
    Which pretty much says you cannot explain it - you simply wear his costume and pretend his voice is yours.
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Which pretty much says you cannot explain it - you simply wear his costume and pretend his voice is yours.
    can you explain, why if i agree whole hearty with Madison on a subject, that i would have to use different words to convey the same meaning?

    Madison makes the point and very well, and since i agree i don't think i can do better...... then He.

  7. #967
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    can you explain, why if i agree whole hearty with Madison on a subject, that i would have to use different words to convey the same meaning?

    Madison makes the point and very well, and since i agree i don't think i can do better...... then He.
    because his words DO NOT answer the questions you were asked nor do they speak to the point of the issue being discussed between myself and others. It is merely one step - the presentation of evidence - then you have to do something it once presented to explain why you think it is significant or speaks to the issue.

    Why are you afraid to do that?
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Its not mind reading; its giving the well educated a benefit of the doubt. I don't believe all of the gun banners are so stupid as to actually believe the crap they spew for the benefit and pandering of the weak minded

    But I find it interesting that you-who claims not to be anti gun (lol) have NEVER EVER taken ANY ISSUE with the pathetic anti gun arguments that are voided upon this board
    But your belief is not evidence. It's your bias and emotion on the subject. And frankly, they make better arguments than you. That's not my fault. I'm not emotionally attached to tools.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    because his words DO NOT answer the questions you were asked nor do they speak to the point of the issue being discussed between myself and others. It is merely one step - the presentation of evidence - then you have to do something it once presented to explain why you think it is significant or speaks to the issue.

    Why are you afraid to do that?
    what i discussed was clear, and i will restate it again.

    the preamble to the Constitution introduces what the Constitution's mission is or goal .

    the preamble to the bill of rights introduces the 1-10 amendments and that they are declaratory and restrictive on the federal government, .....these are facts.

    Madison states the same thing that 1 -10 are declaratory and restrictive on the federal government......what more can be said?

  10. #970
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    what i discussed was clear, and i will restate it again.

    the preamble to the Constitution introduces what the Constitution's mission is or goal .

    the preamble to the bill of rights introduces the 1-10 amendments and that they are declaratory and restrictive on the federal government, .....these are facts.

    Madison states the same thing that 1 -10 are declaratory and restrictive on the federal government......what more can be said?
    What you need to say is the SO WHAT part you were asked. What does all that mean to you and what claim to do you make about these so called "facts" that you claim?

    ps - Madison can't answer that for you - only you can.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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