View Poll Results: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

Voters
75. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    15 20.00%
  • No

    59 78.67%
  • Not sure

    1 1.33%
Page 95 of 136 FirstFirst ... 45859394959697105 ... LastLast
Results 941 to 950 of 1352

Thread: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

  1. #941
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,574

    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie Orwontee View Post
    Your problem is that your interpretation of the Constitution demands the Constitution violate the principles is is founded upon. You read the words of the Constitution in a philosophical vacuum or worse, through a 20th Century communitarian filter that is entirely incompatible with the concept of inherent, pre-existing rights. Your allegience to statist, communitarian values, which came into being in 1917, forces you to render yourself blind to the foundational principles of the Constitution and argue against their binding action under law. .
    that alone is more than sufficient and its undeniably accurate. I have said it for several years. Claiming that the 2A actually allows anything short of a complete gun ban is completely contrary to the entire foundation that the Founders operated upon.



  2. #942
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,574

    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Sadly, that seems to be one of the qualities of linguists.



    It matters not to me who they wrote in support of - only that they came to this conclusion





    As I did not write the Heller opinion I am in neither place. Although you could apply your quip to Justice Scalia since he went to the trouble of mentioning the opinion of the experts then for some reason came to the opposite conclusion.



    I have no idea what that means and apparently neither do you. What agenda do I have? How is my "agenda" - assuming you can identify it - anti-Constitution?
    I think the plain and patent answer is that your "interpretation" of the Second Amendment was crafted backwards--ie you clearly started with the desire to "prove" that Democrat schemes to ban, control, limit or restrict our gun rights were not unconstitutional and you twisted and contorted the meaning and words of the 2A and Article 1 Sec. 8 to establish that goal.

    I think it is pretty well impossible for someone to objectively read either of those two clauses and come up with claims such as "shall not be infringed" actually allows "infringements" or that the militia clause or commerce clause were intended, designed or properly interpreted to give congress gun restriction powers



  3. #943
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:53 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,694

    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I think the plain and patent answer is that your "interpretation" of the Second Amendment was crafted backwards--ie you clearly started with the desire to "prove" that Democrat schemes to ban, control, limit or restrict our gun rights were not unconstitutional and you twisted and contorted the meaning and words of the 2A and Article 1 Sec. 8 to establish that goal.

    I think it is pretty well impossible for someone to objectively read either of those two clauses and come up with claims such as "shall not be infringed" actually allows "infringements" or that the militia clause or commerce clause were intended, designed or properly interpreted to give congress gun restriction powers
    That is what you think. Thank you for making it clear. You ahve a right to your opinion - no matter how incorrect it is about me and my views.

    Here is what I think: you cannot counter what I have said so you try to come up with some attack on my position based on what you want to believe are my motivations.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  4. #944
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,574

    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    That is what you think. Thank you for making it clear. You ahve a right to your opinion - no matter how incorrect it is about me and my views.

    Here is what I think: you cannot counter what I have said so you try to come up with some attack on my position based on what you want to believe are my motivations.
    there is no need to "counter" an Opinion that has been completely thrashed by Willie, myself and others yet again

    the fact is, your interpretation of the 2A cannot be taken seriously by anyone who actually understands the value system of the men who wrote it and adopted it



  5. #945
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:53 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,694

    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    there is no need to "counter" an Opinion that has been completely thrashed by Willie, myself and others yet again
    feel free to present that OPINION and then present the post which COMPLETELY TRASHED it.

    the fact is, your interpretation of the 2A cannot be taken seriously by anyone who actually understands the value system of the men who wrote it and adopted it
    And "by anyone" you mean gun aficionados on the right who post here in carefully controlled gun threads on a right libertarian website. That is fine as it is a teeny tiny very small universe and their opinion is not shared by the greater society.


    I have stated this before and I state it again for your benefit: here is my interpretation of the Second Amendment...


    The Second Amendment says that the American people have the right to keep and bear arms. The duly elected representatives of the American people may exercise their Constitutional powers to enact legislation controlling and regulating firearms so long as they do not create an environment where the people cannot exercise their right.


    Every single legislator who has voted for any regulation of firearms has taken a position which is consistent with this interpretation.
    Every single legislative body who has voted to pass a law for the regulation of firearms has taken a position which is consistent with this interpretation.
    Every single governor who has proposed a law for any regulation of firearms has taken a position which is consistent with this interpretation.
    Every single governor who has signed into law any regulation of firearms has taken a position which is consistent with this interpretation.
    Every single president proposed a law for any regulation of firearms has taken a position which is consistent with this interpretation.
    Every single president who has signed into law any regulation of firearms has taken a position which is consistent with this interpretation.
    Every single judge or justice who has upheld the constitutionality of a law regulating firearms has taken a position which is consistent with this interpretation.
    Every single Court which has voted to uphold the constitutionality of a law regulating firearms has taken a position which is consistent with this interpretation.
    Last edited by haymarket; 10-19-14 at 01:07 PM.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  6. #946
    Sage
    countryboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:23 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    17,705

    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post


    The Second Amendment says that the American people have the right to keep and bear arms. The duly elected representatives of the American people may exercise their Constitutional powers to enact legislation controlling and regulating firearms so long as they do not create an environment where the people cannot exercise their right.
    You can keep repeating this tripe til the cows come home, but it still won't be true. It is nothing more than your ideologically driven opinion. An opinion which you admitted you really don't have the expertise to form. The 2A says absolutely nothing about "creating an environment".

  7. #947
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,574

    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    feel free to present that OPINION and then present the post which COMPLETELY TRASHED it.



    And "by anyone" you mean gun aficionados on the right who post here in carefully controlled gun threads on a right libertarian website. That is fine as it is a teeny tiny very small universe and their opinion is not shared by the greater society.


    I have stated this before and I state it again for your benefit: here is my interpretation of the Second Amendment...


    The Second Amendment says that the American people have the right to keep and bear arms. The duly elected representatives of the American people may exercise their Constitutional powers to enact legislation controlling and regulating firearms so long as they do not create an environment where the people cannot exercise their right.


    Every single legislator who has voted for any regulation of firearms has taken a position which is consistent with this interpretation.
    Every single legislative body who has voted to pass a law for the regulation of firearms has taken a position which is consistent with this interpretation.
    Every single governor who has proposed a law for any regulation of firearms has taken a position which is consistent with this interpretation.
    Every single governor who has signed into law any regulation of firearms has taken a position which is consistent with this interpretation.
    Every single president proposed a law for any regulation of firearms has taken a position which is consistent with this interpretation.
    Every single president who has signed into law any regulation of firearms has taken a position which is consistent with this interpretation.
    Every single judge or justice who has upheld the constitutionality of a law regulating firearms has taken a position which is consistent with this interpretation.
    Every single Court which has voted to uphold the constitutionality of a law regulating firearms has taken a position which is consistent with this interpretation.
    the pathetic repeating-for probably the TWENTIETH TIME this moronic recitation of what dishonest POS politicians have done after 1934 has absolutely ZERO RELEVANCE with what the 2A means and what the founders intended.

    and you are not being honest in your assessment of those scum bag politicians. I think it is just as logical to believe they KNOW their actions violate the words of the founders but they figure they can get away with it because the courts have equally dishonest jurists

    this is a classic case of you moving the goal posts. You have been beaten constantly over what the 2A really says so you pretend what other lefties and statists claim matters



  8. #948
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,574

    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    You can keep repeating this tripe til the cows come home, but it still won't be true. It is nothing more than your ideologically driven opinion. An opinion which you admitted you really don't have the expertise to form. The 2A says absolutely nothing about "creating an environment".
    Here is the bottom line. Those who hate the politics of gun owners OR see a political advantage in pushing laws that harass gun owners KNOW DAMN WELL that their schemes are unconstitutional. But they realize they cannot admit that so they have to engage in machinations, contortions and outright dishonesty to pretend that their hateful schemes are not unconstitutional. FDR started this crap and his minions, fan boys and toadies continue to do it.



  9. #949
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Here is the bottom line. Those who hate the politics of gun owners OR see a political advantage in pushing laws that harass gun owners KNOW DAMN WELL that their schemes are unconstitutional. But they realize they cannot admit that so they have to engage in machinations, contortions and outright dishonesty to pretend that their hateful schemes are not unconstitutional. FDR started this crap and his minions, fan boys and toadies continue to do it.
    And you know this how? mind reading?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #950
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:53 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,694

    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    You can keep repeating this tripe til the cows come home, but it still won't be true. It is nothing more than your ideologically driven opinion. An opinion which you admitted you really don't have the expertise to form. The 2A says absolutely nothing about "creating an environment".
    What ideology is that?

    The only expertise I denied was that of being a trained professional linguist.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

Page 95 of 136 FirstFirst ... 45859394959697105 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •