View Poll Results: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

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  • Yes

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    59 78.67%
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Thread: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

  1. #891
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Someone may already have quoted this passage from Heller, but I'll quote it again anyway. It proves that the claim that government granted the right to keep and bear arms is false.


    "[I]t has always been widely understood that the Second Amendment, like the First and Fourth Amendments, codified a pre-existing right. The very text of the Second Amendment implicitly recognizes the pre-existence of the right and declares only that it “shall not be infringed.” As we said in United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U. S. 542, 553 (1876), “[t]his is not a right granted by the Constitution. Neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence. The Second amendment declares that it shall not be infringed … .” (italics in original)
    For some people, an understanding of natural rights is beyond their grasp and they will forever pathetically attempt to interpret the Constitution backwards. It's kinda funny but mostly sad.

  2. #892
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Your argument is really not with Justice Scalia or the majority in Heller, but with black-letter principles of constitutional law. You live under a Constitution that limits the power of government over individuals, but you would rather it gave government power to limit the rights of those individuals.
    Nope - that is not my position.

    You resent the fact the Constitution designs the very opposite of the kind of centralized, collectivist government you seem to long for, so you just ignore the Constitution. You want to deny that's what you are doing, so you protest that you are not an enemy of the Constitution. Well, you sure could have fooled me.
    again - not my position. No wonder you are fooled.

    You have quotes right here from Supreme Court decisions going back many years. I'm sure a lot more just like them could be found. They establish, beyond any question, that certain rights--particularly the ones guaranteed by the First, Second, and Fourth Amendments--were well recognized in law long before they were codified in the Bill of Rights.
    Excellent - now we are making progress. So these rights come from these laws you just referenced. Terrific. Lets see them then as opposed to some statement of faith in something nobody can prove exists.



    Even the way they are phrased in the Constitution bears this out. As the majority noted in Heller, "the very text of the Second Amendment implicitly recognizes the pre-existence of the right and declares only that it 'shall not be infringed.'”
    If you are referring to those that were WELL RECOGNIZED IN LAW -what you just claimed and I quoted - we are on the same page.

    The same is true of at least one other right protected by the unamended Constitution, the right to habeas. In one of the Guantanamo decisions--Boumediene v. Bush, I think--the Court discusses how that right predates the Constitution. Again, the phrasing in the Constitution bears that out. The Suspension Clause says that "the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended . . . " Why? Because habeas was already well-established as a fundamental right, here as in England, long before 1787.
    same response to that.
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  3. #893
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    [SIZE=4]so are you saying the preamble means nothing?]
    no more than any other suggestion for inclusion in the Constitution which failed to get ratified and included in it.
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  4. #894
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    OMG. Dude, please stop. Do you expect to have an ounce of credibility, or do you just accept that you don't?
    Why do you have a problem with honest answers to questions that you first asked?
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Why do you have a problem with honest answers to questions that you first asked?
    I have no problem with honest answers. When you give me one, I will laud you for it.

  6. #896
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    I have no problem with honest answers. When you give me one, I will laud you for it.
    I do NOT subscribe to the internet belief that a person is qualified to comment on anything and everything and suddenly gains equal status with professionals and experts simply because they own a computer and have access to a forum.

    Sorry if that bothers you.
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I do NOT subscribe to the internet belief that a person is qualified to comment on anything and everything and suddenly gains equal status with professionals and experts simply because they own a computer and have access to a forum.

    Sorry if that bothers you.
    I see, then how does your opinion carry any weight whatsoever? Are you an expert on any subject? You seem to argue from a position of authority.

  8. #898
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    I see, then how does your opinion carry any weight whatsoever? Are you an expert on any subject? You seem to argue from a position of authority.
    I pick my spots. I guess I always felt every intelligent person did.


    Then I discovered internet forums.
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  9. #899
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I pick my spots. I guess I always felt every intelligent person did.


    Then I discovered internet forums.
    So you go on and on about how the 2A doesn't protect the rights of individuals, then you admit you really have no idea what you are talking about. I appreciate your candor. I'm glad we cleared that up.

  10. #900
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    So you go on and on about how the 2A doesn't protect the rights of individuals, then you admit you really have no idea what you are talking about. I appreciate your candor. I'm glad we cleared that up.
    Why are you being intentionally dishonest and twisting and perverting what I actually said?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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