View Poll Results: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

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  • Yes

    15 20.00%
  • No

    59 78.67%
  • Not sure

    1 1.33%
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Thread: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

  1. #71
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Your avoiding two fundamental points that has our discussion failing. Based on the literal wording of the second amendment, there are folk that make a good argument that it applies to the male members of the militia, and secondly, that it's not my argument.
    I'm not clear on what points you are trying to make.
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    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
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  2. #72
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    The second amendment is as much a mandate to maintain a trained militia as it is a right for its members to bear arms without infringement.
    There is no "militia" aspect to the 2nd Amendment. It has never been inspected to inform or held to inform on anything to do with militia organization, training or control. Members of the organized militia are not exercising the right to arms; their being armed is entirely at the whim of Congress who also possesses plenary power to organize the militia and establish the training regimen to be implemented by the states.

    There is no right to form or be a member of a militia, either a government formed one or private citizen initiated (see Presser v Illinois).

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    It's not about 'maintaining,' it's about 'enabling,' meaning they have the right to do so. No one is forced to do so, nor was that the intent. But the need was recognized and addressed by creating the 2A.
    The power to organize the citizens, train them and deploy them as militia is a power that has been completely conferred to the federal government. There is no residual power for citizens (or, since 1903, the states) to exercise in this regard.

    The 2nd Amendment doesn't "do" anything but redundantly forbid the federal government to exercise powers it was never granted.
    I already have a license to own a gun; it's called a birth certificate.

  3. #73
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    I think that it will be amended, in time. Maybe two generations from now. I think that it will be amended because the amount of and technology of modern arms has created a situation in the US wherein mass shootings are almost too easy to pull off. Moreover, the divide that now exists between the conservative 2nd Amendment political movement and most of the US who are for a safer and more secure society is being pushed to it's brink.

    I don't have concerns about pistols and rifles, but as I said, it's the high capacity magazines and the devil-may-care attitude about their use in assault weapons that will eventually tip the balance. As I say, it's the political 2nd Amendment will eventually sacrifice the amendment itself.
    I think ultimately the gun grabbers might try to grab guns. Then they will be killed and the nonsense will disappear



  4. #74
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    There's fluctuation in both, but the statistics say I'm still more likely to survive in England than in America.


    our rates are going down and we have more and more and more guns. white americans have lower rates of violent crime gun deaths than whites in gun restricted areas in Europe



  5. #75
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie Orwontee View Post
    There is no "militia" aspect to the 2nd Amendment. It has never been inspected to inform or held to inform on anything to do with militia organization, training or control. Members of the organized militia are not exercising the right to arms; their being armed is entirely at the whim of Congress who also possesses plenary power to organize the militia and establish the training regimen to be implemented by the states.

    There is no right to form or be a member of a militia, either a government formed one or private citizen initiated (see Presser v Illinois).



    The power to organize the citizens, train them and deploy them as militia is a power that has been completely conferred to the federal government. There is no residual power for citizens (or, since 1903, the states) to exercise in this regard.

    The 2nd Amendment doesn't "do" anything but redundantly forbid the federal government to exercise powers it was never granted.
    absolutely correct. the federal government never was delegated ANY power to interfere with what small arms citizens may own or use



  6. #76
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    our rates are going down and we have more and more and more guns. white americans have lower rates of violent crime gun deaths than whites in gun restricted areas in Europe
    As long as white Americans are safe, that's all that we should be concerned about, right?
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    As long as white Americans are safe, that's all that we should be concerned about, right?
    you as usual, missed the point. The point being that the dominant ethnic group in a nation with fairly free access to guns has lower rates of gun crimes as that same ethic group in countries that ban guns



  8. #78
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Luftwaffe View Post
    What part of states regulate guns within borders so this is a state issue do you not understand?

    States have ultimate authority, if not theoretically, then literally.

    Citizens of the state should vote on what gun laws they find appropriate for their state. Power to the people to determine what they believe is natural to them.
    from our nations founding up to after the civl war, the bill of rights did not apply to states at all......they are restrictions placed solely on the federal government.....[bill of rights preamble]

    state governments depending on what their state Constitution stated, determined gun laws.

    however by the USSC making the decision, that all the states must adhere to the bill of rights, this then placed those same restrictions on state governments...making the 2nd supreme for the nation.
    Last edited by Master PO; 10-07-14 at 04:58 PM.

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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    I would just add

    "the following amendment, when exercised does not make you more patriotic, more brave or a 17th Century revolutionary when exercised"

  10. #80
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    I would just add

    "the following amendment, when exercised does not make you more patriotic, more brave or a 17th Century revolutionary when exercised"
    I wish to make an amendment to the proposed amendment.

    "the following amendment, when exercised does not make you more patriotic or more brave, nor an 18th century revolutionary when exercised."
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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