View Poll Results: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

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  • Yes

    15 20.00%
  • No

    59 78.67%
  • Not sure

    1 1.33%
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Thread: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

  1. #601
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Good point. the term GUN GRABBER as used here and by others seems to mean the same thing it does when a third grader says "nananananana" as a taunt on the playground. And it has the same level of intellectual sophistication.
    And it's not true. It's a demonization and why. Obama has been great for gun rights advocates, he's been great for firearms and ammunition sales, great for those that teach CHL classes, great for the firing ranges, in fact the only ones with a legitimate complaint are his one time supporters that are pissed because he's done nothing to advance firearm restrictions and regulations!

    Bush signs bill geared to toughen screening of gun buyers
    http://www.latimes.com/la-na-guns9dec09-story.html

    The Brady Campaign is a gun control group formed by former Regan press secretary James Brady. The Brady Group grades each president with a letter grade from A to F. A is very strict on gun control and F is extremely lenient on gun control. President Obama has received an F in every category graded by the Brady Group.

    Read more: http://www.disclose.tv/forum/obama-t...#ixzz3FpwQIuex
    Last edited by Montecresto; 10-11-14 at 09:06 AM.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  2. #602
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I can find absolutely no record of the Supreme Court dividing the one sentence of the Second Amendment into any PREFATORY clause and OPERANT clause before Heller. One cannot produce something which was never done.

    And that is the point.

    the Supreme court had made references to the right being individual. that is the point



  3. #603
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    And it's not true. It's a demonization and why. Obama has been great for gun rights advocates, he's been great for firearms and ammunition sales, great for those that teach CHL classes, great for the firing ranges, in fact the only ones with a legitimate complaint are his one time supporters that are pissed because he's done nothing to advance firearm restrictions and regulations!

    Bush signs bill geared to toughen screening of gun buyers
    Bush signs bill geared to toughen screening of gun buyers - LA Times

    The Brady Campaign is a gun control group formed by former Regan press secretary James Brady. The Brady Group grades each president with a letter grade from A to F. A is very strict on gun control and F is extremely lenient on gun control. President Obama has received an F in every category graded by the Brady Group.

    Read more: Obama the most Pro-Gun President : Politics & NWO
    The Brady organization existed long before Reagan and only changed its name in order to use the story of James Brady to advance its nefarious ends. That group is well known for its dishonesty.



  4. #604
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    The Brady organization existed long before Reagan and only changed its name in order to use the story of James Brady to advance its nefarious ends. That group is well known for its dishonesty.
    Ha, now it's Reagan and Brady are bad, don't forget George Bush, better add him in, he signed a bill that would toughen screenings on those exercising their second amendment right. And he was opposed to repealing Clinton's 1994 assault weapons ban.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the Supreme court had made references to the right being individual. that is the point
    No - that is not the point. I stated quite clearly - and some here on your side took objection to it - that Scalia invented new rules and new standards and a new version of the Second Amendment that we did not have in the past 220 years. One such example is his nonsense about a PREFATORY clause which he apparently views as having less than the value of a piece of toilet tissue - and the OPERANT clause which he seems to see as all important. I stated that this was an invention of Scalia in Heller and possibly came from the rightist build-up to it in their 25 year cause celebre which resulted in Heller.

    I provided evidence which shows this despite the urgings of Jerry that I read Heller - which I did and found the language which shows I am correct.

    And THAT my friend was MY point.
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Ha, now it's Reagan and Brady are bad, don't forget George Bush, better add him in, he signed a bill that would toughen screenings on those exercising their second amendment right. And he was opposed to repealing Clinton's 1994 assault weapons ban.
    But aren't all three of those guys evil partisan Democrats out to destroy guns and the political base that supports the gun lobby?
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    But aren't all three of those guys evil partisan Democrats out to destroy guns and the political base that supports the gun lobby?
    Well, they're not partisan democrats to be sure, but they do/did all have more restrictive policies then Obama (as I've shown above) and yet the partisan right here calls Obama the "gun grabber"!

    And, forgot to mention, he signed a bill allowing Amtrak passengers to store handguns in their checked baggage.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5404854.html

    That big gun grabber Obama!!!!
    Last edited by Montecresto; 10-11-14 at 10:30 AM.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Well, they're not partisan democrats to be sure, but they do/did all have more restrictive policies then Obama (as I've shown above) and yet the partisan right here calls Obama the "gun grabber"!

    And, forgot to mention, he signed a bill allowing Amtrak passengers to store handguns in their checked baggage.

    If Obama Is Actually Coming For Your Guns, He's Really Terrible At It

    That big gun grabber Obama!!!!
    But we have been told repeatedly and often that it is the DEMOCRATS who are the gun grabbers? Are you saying the actual record does NOT support such a politically motivated charge? WOW!!!!!!!! Who would have thunk it!!!!
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the Supreme court had made references to the right being individual. that is the point
    the point is that Scalia was led by ideology and NOT by history or the Constitution or anything else. Let me quote from Scalia's majority decision in Heller

    The Second Amendment is naturally divided into two parts: its prefatory clause and its operative clause. The former does not limit the latter grammatically, but rather announces a purpose. The Amendment could be rephrased, “Because a well regulated Militia is necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.” See J. Tiffany, A Treatise on Government and Constitutional Law 585, p. 394 (1867); Brief for Professors of Linguistics and English as Amici Curiae 3 (hereinafter Linguists’ Brief).

    I read both cited by Scalia as the reasons for his dividing the Amendment with those labels.

    The first source - Tiffany - says nothing about that and does not use that label or distinction. The Second was a brief submitted to the Court for Heller and contains some of the most upside down gobbledy-gook word salad parsing I have ever seen in my 65 years. I would ask anyone who thinks it provides any legal basis for the Scalia PREFATORY and OPERANT distinctions to step up toe the plate and explain what that Brief said that was so crucial in making it the platform upon which the decision sits.

    But let me quote from a rather clear part of that same brief Scalia cites as important to determining his reasoning:

    The term “bear arms” is an idiom that means to serve as a soldier, do military service, fight. To “bear arms against” means “to be engaged in hostilities with.” The word “arms” itself has an overwhelmingly military meaning, referring to weapons of offense or armor of defense. In every instance we have found where the term “bear arms” (or “bearing arms” or “bear arms against”) is employed, without any additional modifying language attached, the term unquestionably is used in its idiomatic military sense. It is only where additional language is tacked on, either to bend the idiom by specifying a particular type of fighting or to break the idiom by adding incompatible language, that the meaning of “bear arms” deviates. In the Second Amendment, the term is employed in its natural, unadorned state and, therefore, one must conclude, was used idiomatically to refer to military service.
    So please tell us how Scalia came to the opposite decision from the source he lists as an important one in helping to formulate his understanding and interpretation of the Amendment?
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  10. #610
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    No - it clears up nothing. Reagans statement was very clear and applies to the Second Amendment. It is an entirely valid statement.
    I guess we'll just go with this then, since you willfully choose to ignore it, as you didnt ask for clarification (on how it doesnt apply to the 2A anymore than the other things I mentioned.).

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    That's not true...you just chose to ignore it or didnt understand it.

    The comment of RR's can be applied to many things...and when such is done....it's shown to not be a valid presumption.

    Does that help clear it up?
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