View Poll Results: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

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    59 78.67%
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Thread: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

  1. #591
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Cabbies are required by law to pick up these open-carriers.
    You should acquaint yerself with the laws of Nevada before speaking as you normally do on guns .
    If a fare wants to use a gun on a cabbie, what difference does it make if he's got it concealed or in the open? The cabbie can't read the guy's mind in either case--all he can do is pass up someone he's got a bad feeling about, and forget about the law.

    All the time I lived in Arizona, I never saw or met anyone who was carrying a gun openly that wasn't obviously a peaceful citizen.

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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Not worth my time. If you want to argue with Justice Scalia, put some leftist drum beating in a letter and send it to him.
    Which means you are unable to do so.... just like I figured.
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Which means you are unable to do so.... just like I figured.
    That's not responsive to what Matchlight said. He was asking you to prove your claim that the USSC had interpreted the 2A differently before Heller.



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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You had no real argument. If you think you do, just state it clearly and I will be happy to speak to it.
    That's not true...you just chose to ignore it or didnt understand it.

    The comment of RR's can be applied to many things...and when such is done....it's shown to not be a valid presumption.

    Does that help clear it up?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    That's not responsive to what Matchlight said. He was asking you to prove your claim that the USSC had interpreted the 2A differently before Heller.
    I can find absolutely no record of the Supreme Court dividing the one sentence of the Second Amendment into any PREFATORY clause and OPERANT clause before Heller. One cannot produce something which was never done.

    And that is the point.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    That's not true...you just chose to ignore it or didnt understand it.

    The comment of RR's can be applied to many things...and when such is done....it's shown to not be a valid presumption.

    Does that help clear it up?
    No - it clears up nothing. Reagans statement was very clear and applies to the Second Amendment. It is an entirely valid statement.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I can find absolutely no record of the Supreme Court dividing the one sentence of the Second Amendment into any PREFATORY clause and OPERANT clause before Heller. One cannot produce something which was never done.

    And that is the point.
    Go read Heller.

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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Go read Heller.
    have done so.
    The Second Amendment is naturally divided into two parts: its prefatory clause and its operative clause. The former does not limit the latter grammatically, but rather announces a purpose. The Amendment could be rephrased, “Because a well regulated Militia is necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.” See J. Tiffany, A Treatise on Government and Constitutional Law 585, p. 394 (1867); Brief for Professors of Linguistics and English as Amici Curiae 3 (hereinafter Linguists’ Brief).
    I read both cited by Scalia as the reasons for his dividing the Amendment with those labels.

    The first source - Tiffany - says nothing about that and does not use that label or distinction. The Second was a brief submitted to the Court for Heller and contains some of the most upside down gobbledy-gook word salad parsing I have ever seen in my 65 years. I would ask anyone who thinks it provides any legal basis for the Scalia PREFATORY and OPERANT distinctions to step up toe the plate and explain what that Brief said that was so crucial in making it the platform upon which the decision sits.

    Lets start with you Jerry . Scalia cites this breif early in his opinion as being important. Lets look at part of it:

    The term “bear arms” is an idiom that means to serve as a soldier, do military service, fight. To “bear arms against” means “to be engaged in hostilities with.” The word “arms” itself has an overwhelmingly military meaning, referring to weapons of offense or armor of defense. In every instance we have found where the term “bear arms” (or “bearing arms” or “bear arms against”) is employed, without any additional modifying language attached, the term unquestionably is used in its idiomatic military sense. It is only where additional language is tacked on, either to bend the idiom by specifying a particular type of fighting or to break the idiom by adding incompatible language, that the meaning of “bear arms” deviates. In the Second Amendment, the term is employed in its natural, unadorned state and, therefore, one must conclude, was used idiomatically to refer to military service.
    So how did Scalia use that to then decide the right was an individual one and had nothing to do with military service when his own source says the very opposite?
    Last edited by haymarket; 10-11-14 at 08:34 AM.
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Republican candidates and policies and general public image set up Obama's election win.
    Yep, and this is the "gun grabber"

    Obama chided for allowing guns in national parks, wildlife refuges | NOLA.com
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Good point. the term GUN GRABBER as used here and by others seems to mean the same thing it does when a third grader says "nananananana" as a taunt on the playground. And it has the same level of intellectual sophistication.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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