View Poll Results: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

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  • Yes

    15 20.00%
  • No

    59 78.67%
  • Not sure

    1 1.33%
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Thread: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

  1. #431
    Advisor Willie Orwontee's Avatar
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I don't understand why you're having difficulty with this.
    Well, it isn't too often that I encounter someone who argues that two mutually exclusive interpretations of the 2nd Amendment are actually perfectly compatible and actually commingled.

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    We have a natural individual right of self defense and we have a natural and practical right of collective defense.
    And I wonder if you haven't been asleep for a few decades; under the collective right theory, we have no right to personal self defense and whatever collective defense right we have, it can only be exercised when you are a member of and acting under the authority of, an official state militia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    but collectively we need police and military practicing the collective right to bear arms for societal defense.
    Sigh . . . Police and the military are armed and duty bound by authority of laws, not by any exercise of a right. Your position depends on total mutation / misapplication / misassignment of legal concepts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    This is really simple, and both positions are solid.
    No, its neither and quite laughable really. You hold your position without regard and in spite of the well established understandings of the collective right theory and its legal action on the right secured by the 2nd Amendment.

    I should have written you off and ignored your fantasies when your initial reply was "Well, I just disagree with you. In my estimation, they both are strong arguments" without any reasoned argument of why I'm wrong and you are right. I should know that the impact legal argument has on people who dwell in a world of rainbow unicorns, is quite limited.
    Last edited by Willie Orwontee; 10-10-14 at 05:31 AM.
    I already have a license to own a gun; it's called a birth certificate.

  2. #432
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    Telling a gun fetishist that there will be a cap on their magazine volume is like telling an alcoholic that they are on a two drink limit.
    When too much still ain't enough any restriction sounds like the end of the ****ing world.
    "When too much still ain't enough any restriction sounds like the end of the ****ing world". Hmmm..that kind of sound like when Liberal/Progressive lemmings complain about tax rates not being high enough or anyone not paying their fair share.

  3. #433
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie Orwontee View Post
    Well, it isn't too often that I encounter someone who argues that two mutually exclusive interpretations of the 2nd Amendment are actually perfectly compatible and actually commingled.



    And I wonder if you haven't been asleep for a few decades; under the collective right theory, we have no right to personal self defense and whatever collective defense right we have, it can only be exercised when you are a member of and acting under the authority of, an official state militia.



    Sigh . . . Police and the military are armed and duty bound by authority of laws, not by any exercise of a right. Your position depends on total mutation / misapplication / misassignment of legal concepts.



    No, its neither and quite laughable really. You hold your position without regard and in spite of the well established understandings of the collective right theory and its legal action on the right secured by the 2nd Amendment.

    I should have written you off and ignored your fantasies when your initial reply was "Well, I just disagree with you. In my estimation, they both are strong arguments" without any reasoned argument of why I'm wrong and you are right. I should know that the impact legal argument has on people who dwell in a world of rainbow unicorns, is quite limited.
    Well now, even with your personal insults aside, besides the group of lawyers at the UCLA, there are many educated people, as well as opinionated people such as yourself that disagree with you. And considering various supreme courts have viewed this both ways, it's obviously not the dogma you espouse. Funny you wouldn't consider the second amendment to be law though. The militia, National Guard, army (military) are bound by that law as a necessity of the security of the State. And the individual aspect of self defense, whether you agree or not is also acknowledged by the second amendment, and it's natural enough as to be a given, with or without the second amendments acknowledgment of it. As long as there has been humans, they have sought individual and collective defense. I disagree with any stated conflict between the two.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  4. #434
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Yup, and do you think flying the plane into a building would decompress the cabin?

    I think a couple air marshals with fragmenting ammo is the safer bet.
    And I think your just bored. Terrorists won't be using fragmenting bullets!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  5. #435
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    yes, we have seen that silliness argued before. as I noted it is like saying THOU SHALL NOT STEAL does not prevent STEALING because STEALING is not mentioned
    Its not "like" anything . It is what it is. This is this - this isn't something else. And I cannot find even one so called Founder using the term INFRINGEMENTS. Can you?

    The Amendment bars the right from being INFRINGED. IT says nothing about your modernist concept of INFRINGEMENTS which you interpret as any effort to limit or control firearms.
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  6. #436
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I think its the decent people that is subject to dispute.

    or perhaps you'd been better off using HONEST people
    Both apply. There is a ton of honest and decent people in this nation who support people having guns for self defense and sport but also support reasonable laws controlling firearms. They are indeed honest and decent people.

    Ronald Reagan summed such folks up perfectly.


    “I do not believe in taking away the right of the citizen for sporting, for hunting and so forth, or for home defense. But I do believe that an AK-47, a machine gun, is not a sporting weapon or needed for defense of a home.”

    ~Ronald Reagan, at his birthday celebration in 1989.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  7. #437
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Um...there's a few of us in this thread....backing the 2A unreservedly.
    Um.....so what? Are you in favor of Obamacare? How about the Hobby Lobby ruling? Do you think bakeries should be forced to bake cakes for gay weddings? What other oppressive leftist policies do you support?

  8. #438
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    Um.....so what? Are you in favor of Obamacare? How about the Hobby Lobby ruling? Do you think bakeries should be forced to bake cakes for gay weddings? What other oppressive leftist policies do you support?
    Mornin CB, health care needs reform, whether or not the PPACA is the answer of course is a matter of debate. The issue of bakeries cooking for gay people is a matter for the courts to decide, not leftists.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Mornin CB, health care needs reform, whether or not the PPACA is the answer of course is a matter of debate. The issue of bakeries cooking for gay people is a matter for the courts to decide, not leftists.
    Mornin' Montecresto.

    Forcing people to do something against their will, is never the answer. I was just throwing out examples of abhorrent, oppressive policies that leftists tend to support. Freedom of association shouldn't have to be decided in court.

  10. #440
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    Mornin' Montecresto.

    Forcing people to do something against their will, is never the answer. I was just throwing out examples of abhorrent, oppressive policies that leftists tend to support. Freedom of association shouldn't have to be decided in court.
    Lol, people have been forcing me to do things against my will since I was born and political persuasion has had nothing to do with it! Many consider the gays and bakeries issue to be about discrimination, not association.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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