View Poll Results: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

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Thread: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

  1. #331
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    well there are gun hating statists who claim that the 2A as written does not recognize any right belonging to individuals and one poster has claimed that "shall not be infringed" was actually written to ALLOW all sorts of infringements by the founders
    Yep - I recognize that. But, then, there are a lot of people out there who believe the moon is made of cheese, too.
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  2. #332
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by GBFAN View Post
    Yep - I recognize that. But, then, there are a lot of people out there who believe the moon is made of cheese, too.
    here is the problem. we all know what the 2A intended to recognize and thus prevent. and for about 140 years, no one disputed that. but in 1934 FDR wanted to pander to the people who were pissing themselves over a crisis created by government-that crisis being the gang wars caused by the idiocy of prohibition. and FDR wanted to get some credit by pandering rather than using current laws or leaving law enforcement where it belonged-at the state level

    so to pander he tried to first ban machine guns and then, when his AG said that was unconstitutional, make up some sort of power based on the commerce clause to make LEGAL machine guns too expensive for ordinary people to own. so he ignored the 2A and raped the 10A

    and his toadies then had to pretend he did neither



  3. #333
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    here is the problem. we all know what the 2A intended to recognize and thus prevent. and for about 140 years, no one disputed that. but in 1934 FDR wanted to pander to the people who were pissing themselves over a crisis created by government-that crisis being the gang wars caused by the idiocy of prohibition. and FDR wanted to get some credit by pandering rather than using current laws or leaving law enforcement where it belonged-at the state level

    so to pander he tried to first ban machine guns and then, when his AG said that was unconstitutional, make up some sort of power based on the commerce clause to make LEGAL machine guns too expensive for ordinary people to own. so he ignored the 2A and raped the 10A

    and his toadies then had to pretend he did neither
    The disconnect between the way you started your argument.... "WE ALL KNOW WHAT THE 2A INTENDED"...... and your usual partisan fueled vitriolic screed against FDR is wider than the Grand Canyon and shows that "WE ALL KNOW" - previous little of the same thing when it comes to the Second Amendment since much is largely based on ideology and self imposed belief. Knowledge is not the problem and really has not been for a long time now. Its belief pure and simple and the Scalia opinion in Heller was ample evidence of that.
    Last edited by haymarket; 10-09-14 at 05:37 PM.
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  4. #334
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    well there are gun hating statists who claim that the 2A as written does not recognize any right belonging to individuals and one poster has claimed that "shall not be infringed" was actually written to ALLOW all sorts of infringements by the founders
    You have often accused me of that Turtle but it is your own strawman of your own making. Each time you trot it out of the barn I repeatedly tell you that the use of the modernist term INFRINGEMENTS is intellectually dishonest in the extreme because the term IS NOT used in the Amendment. As such, twisting and perverting it merely shows evidence that your statement is not to be taken seriously by anyone other than those already in that committed corner with the gun lobby.
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  5. #335
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    The disconnect between the way you started your argument.... "WE ALL KNOW WHAT THE 2A INTENDED"...... and your usual partisan fueled vitriolic screed against FDR is wider than the Grand Canyon and shows that "WE ALL KNOW" - previous little of the same thing when it comes to the Second Amendment since much is largely based on ideology and self imposed belief. Knowledge is not the problem and really has not been for a long time now. Its belief pure and simple and the Scalia opinion in Heller was ample evidence of that.
    you are partially correct but I maintain again WE ALL KNOW. people who are objectively honest admit that too. Most anti gun activists damn well know that the 2A prevents federal gun control but that is why those advocates spend so much time pretending the 2A does not say what it obviously does



  6. #336
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    Those are collectivist views. We're in agreement.

    There are tens of thousands of domestic gun deaths annually. That's a significant number of lives lost that should be addressed.

    That's a collectivist view of the second amendment.

    A gun is illegal if possessed by someone without legal access. A nuclear bomb is legal when possessed by the correct people.
    Your simply wrong dude. A gun is legal or illegal by its classification and not by whose using it.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  7. #337
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You have often accused me of that Turtle but it is your own strawman of your own making. Each time you trot it out of the barn I repeatedly tell you that the use of the modernist term INFRINGEMENTS is intellectually dishonest in the extreme because the term IS NOT used in the Amendment. As such, twisting and perverting it merely shows evidence that your statement is not to be taken seriously by anyone other than those already in that committed corner with the gun lobby.
    so you no longer claim that "shall not be infringed" does not prevent infringements

    do you no longer claim that the founders actually intended "infringements" to be a proper function of the federal government was you once did?



  8. #338
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfoot 88 View Post
    A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

    Yes, take out the underlined part, it will make it more clear.
    That would make it clearer, and if we as a nation agree to that change, so be it. Are you willing to open it up to that process?

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  9. #339
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    That would make it clearer, and if we as a nation agree to that change, so be it. Are you willing to open it up to that process?
    well even if the mindless gun haters were to say remove the 2A, they would still have to add an amendment that allows the federal government the proper power to regulate small arms

    I'd much rather modify the commerce clause in a way that returns that provision to its obvious intent an thus overrule all those idiotic FDR decisions like Wickard et al



  10. #340
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    now having bullets fly around occupied cabin areas is not what one calls an ideal environment though


    and in some cases, someone might get sucked out if they are next to a window that gets totally blown out

    HowStuffWorks "What if someone shot a gun on an airplane?"
    Right, so with windows lined up all along both sides of the plane inches apart, I think it a high probability that in a gun fight between terrorists and an air Marshall/Marshall's that a window gets blown out. Even if the passenger next to that window has a seat belt on the plane depressurizes in seconds. No, I prefer adequate screening that denies the possibility whatsoever that anybody boards a plane with a firearm, including the air Marshall's.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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