View Poll Results: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

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  • Yes

    15 20.00%
  • No

    59 78.67%
  • Not sure

    1 1.33%
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Thread: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

  1. #1331
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Given your refusal to honestly answer most of the questions put to you, I really don't give a tinker's dam about your questions but its an easy answer.
    Why are you powerless to answer a simple question? What that tells me is that I really got you treed on this one and you see no possible way out other than simply backing away hoping it will go away like a terminal cancer patient hopes its all a bad dream But you are awake Turtle - and its not going away.

    Can you explain to me how a citizen can exercise and actually employ a RIGHT which exists only in the belief system of another individual?
    Last edited by haymarket; 10-25-14 at 10:19 PM.
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  2. #1332
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post



    I think this comment hit the Irony trifecta after the claim that "shall not be infringed" was intended to allow infringements
    The Second does not mention INFRINGEMENTS. That is your own strawman of your own creation designed to pervert and twist what the Amendment really says in the effort to pursue a radical right wing agenda.

    Can you explain to me how a citizen can exercise and actually employ a RIGHT which exists only in the belief system of another individual?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  3. #1333
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Why are you impotent to answer a simple question?

    Oh wait!!! Because it exposes the entire fraud you try to perpetrate here.
    your post appears to signal confusion once again

    My post clearly set forth my actions

    and lets take a poll as to whose arguments are fraudulent

    mine-shall not be infringed says NO FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, you cannot interfere with our RKBA

    yours-Shall not be infringed means the founders intended all sorts of infringements up to but PERHAPS not including complete gun bans



  4. #1334
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    The Second does not mention INFRINGEMENTS. That is your own strawman of your own creation designed to pervert and twist what the Amendment really says in the effort to pursue a radical right wing agenda.

    Can you explain to me how a citizen can exercise and actually employ a RIGHT which exists only in the belief system of another individual?
    None of the clauses in Sec 8 say anything about federal gun control powers. Yet you divine the existence of such a grant

    your changing standards for interpreting various parts of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights appear to be a bit less than consistent



  5. #1335
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post

    and lets take a poll as to whose arguments are fraudulent
    Trying to change the question will not work Turtle.

    In your poll why not limit it to far right gun supporters who have at least 1,000 supportive posts of your position in gun threads? That would be really neat.

    Trying to invoke the fallacy of Argumentum ad Populum only makes your argument look even weaker - and I wondered if that was even possible.

    So lets go back and look t this again: Can you explain to me how a citizen can exercise and actually employ a RIGHT which exists only in the belief system of another individual?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  6. #1336
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    None of the clauses in Sec 8 say anything about federal gun control powers. Yet you divine the existence of such a grant

    your changing standards for interpreting various parts of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights appear to be a bit less than consistent
    Actually at least five of them do and you know it because we have been over this time and time and time again. But you really do not care about that--- you bringing up what has already been dealt with is only a sign of desperation to change the subject.

    Can you explain to me how a citizen can exercise and actually employ a RIGHT which exists only in the belief system of another individual?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  7. #1337
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Trying to change the question will not work Turtle.

    In your poll why not limit it to far right gun supporters who have at least 1,000 supportive posts of your position in gun threads? That would be really neat.

    Trying to invoke the fallacy of Argumentum ad Populum only makes your argument look even weaker - and I wondered if that was even possible.

    So lets go back and look t this again: Can you explain to me how a citizen can exercise and actually employ a RIGHT which exists only in the belief system of another individual?
    why do you claim that shall not be infringed does not prevent infringements (like saying that shall not steal is not a prohibition against STEALING) but then pretend that there is language delegating gun control power to congress in clauses that don't even HINT at such a delegation

    how does a Christian HAVE FAITH when faith exists only in the belief system of people?



  8. #1338
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    why do you claim that shall not be infringed does not prevent infringements (like saying that shall not steal is not a prohibition against STEALING) but then pretend that there is language delegating gun control power to congress in clauses that don't even HINT at such a delegation

    how does a Christian HAVE FAITH when faith exists only in the belief system of people?
    Its not like anything. This isn't something else. This is this.

    The Second does NOT mention the modernist concept of INFRINGEMENTS. But then you know that since you have been schooled on this at least 100 times in many different threads. But you really do not care about that--- you bringing up what has already been dealt with is only a sign of desperation to change the subject.

    Now regarding your belief system about natural rights and pre-existing rights ...Can you explain to me how a citizen can exercise and actually employ a RIGHT which exists only in the belief system of another individual?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  9. #1339
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Its not like anything. This isn't something else. This is this.

    The Second does NOT mention the modernist concept of INFRINGEMENTS. But then you know that since you have been schooled on this at least 100 times in many different threads.

    Now regarding your belief system about natural rights and pre-existing rights ...Can you explain to me how a citizen can exercise and actually employ a RIGHT which exists only in the belief system of another individual?
    NO-what this is is a constantly changing set of standards that is laughably disingenuous. Unlike you, we pro rights posters don't have to engage in changing standards, making words up, etc as you do.

    You claim to school people but all we have learned is that your posts are inconsistent and you change your standards when it is convenient for your position.

    can you explain to me why Shall not be infringed DOES NOT PREVENT INFRINGEMENTS but the Commerce Clause clearly says retail firearms sales are a power of federal authority

    Did you even read Cruikshank where the court clearly stated that powers of the state are not powers for congress?



  10. #1340
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    NO-what this is is a constantly changing set of standards that is laughably disingenuous. Unlike you, we pro rights posters don't have to engage in changing standards, making words up, etc as you do.

    You claim to school people but all we have learned is that your posts are inconsistent and you change your standards when it is convenient for your position.

    can you explain to me why Shall not be infringed DOES NOT PREVENT INFRINGEMENTS but the Commerce Clause clearly says retail firearms sales are a power of federal authority

    Did you even read Cruikshank where the court clearly stated that powers of the state are not powers for congress?
    Not one thing you said there answers the question which is fundamental to your assertion about natural rights: But you really do not care about that--- you bringing up what has already been dealt with is only a sign of desperation to change the subject.

    Can you explain to me how a citizen can exercise and actually employ a RIGHT which exists only in the belief system of another individual?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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