View Poll Results: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

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  • Yes

    15 20.00%
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    59 78.67%
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Thread: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

  1. #1281
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    At no time in the history of this country has the government attempted to disarm it's citizens and the 2A has very little if anything to do with that.
    You are not being truthful or you are merely ignorant of history.

    the governments in the south tried to disarm freed slaves

    the NYC elite tried to disarm "papist immigrants" in the early 1900s. CLinton tried to disarm American citizens.


    and numerous Democrats have called for more extensive gun bans



  2. #1282
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    When you do that you fall for the hype. Politicians lie. Politicians will say nearly anything if it is in their own current self interest. Politicians are more than happy to use anything they have to use to get where they want to be or achieve what they want to achieve. And when the next cause comes along they have no trouble shifting gears and adopting new positions that may be contrary to the previous ones.

    I learned long long ago that you do NOT dwell too long about what people claim they believe as it is just window dressing. Look at what they do. Look at their actions. Ignore the words.

    And we know that the Founders did not even believe their statements of self professed belief when they said them.

    So this idea that the Founders could not have intended to give the government the power to do those things because their belief system said the opposite is simply the No True Scotsman Fallacy on speed.

    The fact is that they did give the federal goverenment via the Congress the powers and high fallutin' beliefs be damned in the process.

    Focusing on beliefs and what somebody said is for the gullible who are fooled by such meaningless pap. Look at action. hey tell you much much more.

    Jefferson and his co-signers to the Declaration said that they believed all men were created equal and they all had inalienable rights to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness while they willingly and freely owned other human beings as slaves with all the abuse and denial of life and liberty and pursuit of happiness that goes with the practice.

    So spare us all their pompous personal pontifications which were obvious lies the moment the quill was placed to parchment.

    What they said the believed in means nothing compared to their actions.
    so now the Haymarket approach to the constitution is that the founders lied and they really wanted to ban guns

    what bottom of the barrel, last chance attempt to salvage a position you lost years ago



  3. #1283
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Nope. The Founders did what they did and agve the Congress the powers they gave them.
    a completely worthless statement that has no value whatsoever. Its apparently all one has left after saying the Founders intended congress REGULATE FROM THE START a right they (along with subsequent supreme court decisions) believed PRE EXISTED congress

    complete fail



  4. #1284
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Their so called belief system is irrelevant as many of them did not even the beliefs the moment they stated them. They are merely lipstick on the pig to try and fool the gullible.
    complete fail. You pretend that the words they use say and command something different than just about anyone else. and your interpretations completely run counter to the belief system of the founders

    No wonder you spend so much time trying to twist or deny what they believed



  5. #1285
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    so now the Haymarket approach to the constitution is that the founders lied and they really wanted to ban guns

    what bottom of the barrel, last chance attempt to salvage a position you lost years ago
    We know the Founders did NOT believe in the nonsense they were spewing since their words are 100% contrary to their own actions AT THAT VERY TIME. That is historical fact that is beyond argument, beyond dispute and beyond debate.

    As to wanting to "ban guns". Nobody has asserted that so take another one of you long series of strawmen back into that massive barn where you store them by the gross.
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    complete fail. You pretend that the words they use say and command something different than just about anyone else. and your interpretations completely run counter to the belief system of the founders

    No wonder you spend so much time trying to twist or deny what they believed
    Nope. What I said was that they did not believe the crap they were spewing as mere window dressing for their actions. We know this because at the very second they were putting those words down on parchment and signing them - they were doing the very opposite..... and continued to do so.

    Judging a man by his beliefs and words rather than by their actions is a game for the gullible and naive. It is also a denial of the harsh and opposite reality that their deeds revealed.
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    a completely worthless statement that has no value whatsoever. Its apparently all one has left after saying the Founders intended congress REGULATE FROM THE START a right they (along with subsequent supreme court decisions) believed PRE EXISTED congress

    complete fail
    Rights do not pre-exist. If they do tell us please where they pre-existed.
    __________________________________________________ _
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  8. #1288
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Rights do not pre-exist. If they do tell us please where they pre-existed.
    I am not going to answer that stupid dilatory question yet again. You can argue with the Cruikshank court that noted the 2A protects a pre-existing right

    I realize you don't like that holding. You apparently understand that no one who believes in a natural right would ever write the 2A to allow all sorts of infringements. But you cannot get around the fact that your interpretation of the 2A and the clauses of Sec. 8 are completely contrary to the belief system of the founders and thus your interpretation is without any merit whatsoever



  9. #1289
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Nope. What I said was that they did not believe the crap they were spewing as mere window dressing for their actions. We know this because at the very second they were putting those words down on parchment and signing them - they were doing the very opposite..... and continued to do so.

    Judging a man by his beliefs and words rather than by their actions is a game for the gullible and naive. It is also a denial of the harsh and opposite reality that their deeds revealed.
    complete horsecrap. the founders had not given a single clue they wanted federal gun control



  10. #1290
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    Re: Do you think the second amendment needs amended?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    complete horsecrap. the founders had not given a single clue they wanted federal gun control
    I wonder. Haven't studied it that much. But I also wonder how they would be today, having lived a couple if centruries seeing all that history.

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