View Poll Results: Do firearms empower people?

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  • Im a right leaning American, yes.

    27 44.26%
  • Im a left leaning American, yes.

    20 32.79%
  • Im not American, yes.

    4 6.56%
  • Im a right leaning American, no.

    2 3.28%
  • Im a left leaning American, no.

    4 6.56%
  • Im not American, no.

    4 6.56%
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Thread: Do firearms empower people?

  1. #111
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    Re: Do firearms empower people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilly View Post
    Ask US Conservative. He's the one who believes marxism kills people.
    I said that IDEOLOGY IN ITS IMPLEMENTATION DOES. Last I heard, Ideas in and of themselves are just ideas.

  2. #112
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    Re: Do firearms empower people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    This critical thinking is sadly absent from your claim that Marxism killed 100 million people.

    Still waiting on your data.
    At least 100 million, all over the world and all over the last 100 years. The left did this.
    The Black Book of Communism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Mass killings under Communist regimes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  3. #113
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    Re: Do firearms empower people?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Eh, I see it as Lenin being a very poor judge of character and being more focused on ideology than the enactment of that ideology. There is nothing wrong with the ideology, but the act of putting it into place goes against human nature, so those in power MUST do terrible things for it to happen... at which point it ceases to be communism and becomes authoritarianism.

    There are no morals in politics; there is only expedience. A scoundrel may be of use to us just because he is a scoundrel. - Vladimir Lenin

    You actually made me think of something else though. When Lenin was dying apparently he came to realize that Stalin was assuming more control over the government than what Lenin gave him and that bringing Stalin into the government might have been a mistake. Still, I'm not convinced he wasn't following his own advice when he brought Stalin on board.

  4. #114
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    Re: Do firearms empower people?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Economically, true. However, Stalin went far further than Lenin did and basically abandoned communism from a political standpoint into authoritarianism.
    Dont forget that Russia was already a backward and incredibly violent place even before communism, and its history its bloody and spectacular long before Stalin.

    I read somewhere that as they were shooting up to 5 thousand a night in basements and cellars that the most commonly uttered phrase prior to being killed was long live stalin. They were always just a few murders away from paradise.

  5. #115
    Dungeon Master
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    Re: Do firearms empower people?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    And WHEN have you ever seen me do that. Jumping to conclusions, X?
    And when have you ever seen me do that? Actually, don't answer that.

    Gordon Gekko was right. Greed is good. It propels us and progresses us. But it's also true that once one is in power, the farther they get from the masses, the less they understand or care about them.
    Sure and it's like anything else, some greed can be good but a lot can obviously be very bad.
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mahatma Gandhi


  6. #116
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    Re: Do firearms empower people?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Eh, I see it as Lenin being a very poor judge of character and being more focused on ideology than the enactment of that ideology. There is nothing wrong with the ideology, but the act of putting it into place goes against human nature, so those in power MUST do terrible things for it to happen... at which point it ceases to be communism and becomes authoritarianism.
    You dont think an ideology that fundamentally opposes human nature and leads to authoritarianism has something wrong with it?

  7. #117
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    Re: Do firearms empower people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    There are no morals in politics; there is only expedience. A scoundrel may be of use to us just because he is a scoundrel. - Vladimir Lenin

    You actually made me think of something else though. When Lenin was dying apparently he came to realize that Stalin was assuming more control over the government than what Lenin gave him and that bringing Stalin into the government might have been a mistake. Still, I'm not convinced he wasn't following his own advice when he brought Stalin on board.
    He may have, but Lenin was no dummy. He probably realized that he made a serious error in bringing Stalin in, but also realized that trying to get rid of him would get him killed.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  8. #118
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    Re: Do firearms empower people?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    He may have, but Lenin was no dummy. He probably realized that he made a serious error in bringing Stalin in, but also realized that trying to get rid of him would get him killed.
    where did Lenin's henchman with the ice ax go?



  9. #119
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    Re: Do firearms empower people?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    You dont think an ideology that fundamentally opposes human nature and leads to authoritarianism has something wrong with it?
    The ideology in and of itself is not a problem. It promotes order, equity amongst people with free access to services, preventing poverty. Problem is, this is idealistic to the max and cannot happen because of human nature. The ideology is not the issue; it's incompatibility with how humans operate is.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  10. #120
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    Re: Do firearms empower people?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Then how is it that the second amendment kills people? What was the purpose of the second amendment?
    I never said that the second amendment kills people.

    I do believe that the application of the second amendment creates a mechanism whereby gun homicide is more likely to take place (to paraphrase turtledude).

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    I said that IDEOLOGY IN ITS IMPLEMENTATION DOES. Last I heard, Ideas in and of themselves are just ideas.
    Keep your socks on. My original point:

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilly View Post
    I'm no marxist, I just want to flip the tables on a ridiculous argument tactic abused by the pro-gun crowd.
    The tactic being the obfuscation between something performing an action and something being used to perform an action. I apologize if it was derailing.


    EDIT:

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that really doesn't track because at best, the 2A meant that there were arms the killers wouldn't have had, which of course is not true. Communism motivated the killers and their application of that hateful philosophy created a mechanism where massive genocide could take place
    Sorry if I'm being stupid but I don't follow. Could you rephrase for me (if you still think this is relevant to the thread)?
    "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable" - JFK

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