View Poll Results: Do firearms empower people?

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  • Im a right leaning American, yes.

    27 44.26%
  • Im a left leaning American, yes.

    20 32.79%
  • Im not American, yes.

    4 6.56%
  • Im a right leaning American, no.

    2 3.28%
  • Im a left leaning American, no.

    4 6.56%
  • Im not American, no.

    4 6.56%
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Thread: Do firearms empower people?

  1. #101
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    Re: Do firearms empower people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilly View Post
    By what rational are you allowed to judge marxism by its implementation, but when anti-gun folk judge guns by their implementation we get the argument that they are inanimate tools? You simply cannot judge one by its implementation and the other as an inanimate object, no matter how incomparable they are. Either:

    a) Guns kill people and marxism kills people.

    or

    b) Guns don't kill people, people who use abuse them do and marxism doesn't kill people, people who abuse it do.

    At least be consistent. (Your lawnmower/atheism comparisons are a complete straw man because you seem to be uncomfortable with admitting this)



    Not that I agree with his statement, but if he needs to prove his point by saying that without the 2A there would be no murders, then surely in order to prove your accusation that communism/marxism caused all these murders then you'd have to prove that without communism there would be no murders. That's clearly not the case. Using your own logic here.
    Totally get what you're saying but I don't think you can compare an ideology to an object. Your point is fair if you say the same about, say, the implementation of the 2nd Amendment and, really, who could deny that there are more deaths by gun in the US simply because there are more guns? However, I do not believe the overall murder rates are any worse because people will use what's available.
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  2. #102
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    Re: Do firearms empower people?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Economically, true. However, Stalin went far further than Lenin did and basically abandoned communism from a political standpoint into authoritarianism.
    If it wasn't for Lenin accepting people into his ranks that he knew were less than great people Stalin would have never had a path to gain power in the first place. Sure Stalin still needed to kill a lot of people to obtain power, but without the position that Lenin gave him it would have never even been possible for him to obtain it in the first place.

    What communists might not realize is that you have to do some pretty awful things to put their system in place and that means you need some pretty awful people to do it. Lenin however knew this and it's why he gave people like Stalin a position in his government.
    Last edited by Henrin; 10-03-14 at 11:12 PM.

  3. #103
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    Re: Do firearms empower people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilly View Post
    By what rational are you allowed to judge marxism by its implementation, but when anti-gun folk judge guns by their implementation we get the argument that they are inanimate tools? You simply cannot judge one by its implementation and the other as an inanimate object, no matter how incomparable they are. Either:

    a) Guns kill people and marxism kills people.

    or

    b) Guns don't kill people, people who use abuse them do and marxism doesn't kill people, people who abuse it do.

    At least be consistent. (Your lawnmower/atheism comparisons are a complete straw man because you seem to be uncomfortable with admitting this)



    Not that I agree with his statement, but if he needs to prove his point by saying that without the 2A there would be no murders, then surely in order to prove your accusation that communism/marxism caused all these murders then you'd have to prove that without communism there would be no murders. That's clearly not the case. Using your own logic here.
    that really doesn't track because at best, the 2A meant that there were arms the killers wouldn't have had, which of course is not true. Communism motivated the killers and their application of that hateful philosophy created a mechanism where massive genocide could take place



  4. #104
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    Re: Do firearms empower people?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Marxism is the same thing as the second amendment?
    No, but it is a concept (using concept/ideology loosely here).
    "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable" - JFK

  5. #105
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    Re: Do firearms empower people?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Exercising one's rights. A means to prevent tyranny. Self defense. The means to hunt.


    Do firearms empower people? Note that this is not pertaining specifically to the US or the 2nd amendment, but rather a general question.






    I voted Right Leaning and Yes. By "people"? I mean a gun empowers ME. In certain situations, it can be "the great equalizer." And, as one of our poster's signatures says, paraphrased, "It's so much easier to carry around than a 225# buff and brave LEO."
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  6. #106
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    Re: Do firearms empower people?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    My mistake then. It's a common refrain that I hear from people who support communism.
    And WHEN have you ever seen me do that. Jumping to conclusions, X?

    Agreed and I'd add that, once you're the one in power, the needs of the masses seem to matter less and less compared to what you can get for yourself and, not to sound like Gordon Gekko, but that kind of greed is not always bad. Shoot, there has to be a little of that in everyone or there'd be no incentive or motive to do anything differently or, maybe, better.
    Gordon Gekko was right. Greed is good. It propels us and progresses us. But it's also true that once one is in power, the farther they get from the masses, the less they understand or care about them.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  7. #107
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    Re: Do firearms empower people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    If it wasn't for Lenin accepting people into his ranks that he knew were less than great people Stalin would have never had a path to gain power in the first place. Sure Stalin still needed to killed a lot of people to obtain power, but without the position that Lenin gave him it would have never even been possible for him to obtain it in the first place.

    What communists might not realize is that you have to do some pretty awful things to put their system in place and that means you need some pretty awful people to do it. Lenin however knew this and it's why he gave people like Stalin a position in his government.
    Eh, I see it as Lenin being a very poor judge of character and being more focused on ideology than the enactment of that ideology. There is nothing wrong with the ideology, but the act of putting it into place goes against human nature, so those in power MUST do terrible things for it to happen... at which point it ceases to be communism and becomes authoritarianism.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  8. #108
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    Re: Do firearms empower people?

    Yeah, I think this guy is empowered!

    Do firearms empower people?-predator_foto_documentary_jesse_ventura_gatling_minigun_aa_01_01a-jpg



  9. #109
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    Re: Do firearms empower people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilly View Post
    By what rational are you allowed to judge marxism by its implementation, but when anti-gun folk judge guns by their implementation we get the argument that they are inanimate tools? You simply cannot judge one by its implementation and the other as an inanimate object, no matter how 'incomparable' they are. Either:

    a) Guns kill people and marxism kills people.

    or

    b) Guns don't kill people, people who use abuse them do and marxism doesn't kill people, people who abuse it do.

    At least be consistent. (Your lawnmower/atheism comparisons are a complete straw man because you seem to be uncomfortable with admitting this)



    Not that I agree with his statement, but if he needs to prove his point by saying that without the 2A there would be no murders, then surely in order to prove your accusation that communism/marxism caused all these murders then you'd have to prove that without communism there would be no murders. That's clearly not the case. Using your own logic here.
    Again, you are presenting a false choice. Marxism fails by any measure, not just based on its implementation or history, or the core of its ideology. But thats a separate issue. Gun control is simply a common measure used by marxists to make one more dependent and unable to resist the state.

  10. #110
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    Re: Do firearms empower people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilly View Post
    No, but it is a concept (using concept/ideology loosely here).
    Then how is it that the second amendment kills people? What was the purpose of the second amendment?
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

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