View Poll Results: Who's more at fault?

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    7 16.67%
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    17 40.48%
  • A bit of both.

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Thread: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

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    Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Is the rise of ISIS more of Bush's fault for invading Iraq, or more of Obama's for pulling out, then disregarding the countries direction?
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Is the rise of ISIS more of Bush's fault for invading Iraq, or more of Obama's for pulling out, then disregarding the countries direction?
    How can anyone else be held responsible for what Islamists do?

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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Is the rise of ISIS more of Bush's fault for invading Iraq, or more of Obama's for pulling out, then disregarding the countries direction?
    If you want to point at the niche that enabled ISIS to thrive, I think I would look at the civil war that has grown out of the Damascus demonstrations. Sure, there were a couple of glowing enthusiasts before. But without the environment of incalculable war in
    Syria they would have remained in their caves but for short forays of small damage.

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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    How can anyone else be held responsible for what Islamists do?

    Well, I've been watching the cable news outlets, opinions on what caused the rise of ISIS, and they continue to try and place blame. I have to say, it seems pointless because the situation is what it is now.

    I would've never went into Iraq, though I would've pulled the troops out completely, like Obama did. And both those decisions were clearly not correct in hindsight. I, personally, don't blame either President for the ME radicals or the growing problem, and doubt anyone could've known what would occur.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    How can anyone else be held responsible for what Islamists do?
    Of course not.we can only try to figure out how they could have come so far so fast. And one thing to learn is that letting the civil war escalate in Syria was a bad idea. Our allies in the region failed miserably.

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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    If you want to point at the niche that enabled ISIS to thrive, I think I would look at the civil war that has grown out of the Damascus demonstrations. Sure, there were a couple of glowing enthusiasts before. But without the environment of incalculable war in
    Syria they would have remained in their caves but for short forays of small damage.
    I believe Syria was to some degree inevitable, because of the Arab Spring uprisings. Russia backs Assad, because he supports their goals on keeping pipelines from providing gas to Europe. And the Turks wanted Assad out because of sectarian differences and aspirations of regional dominance. The whole thing is a sloppy mess now. Nobody really knows who to bomb and who to support?
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    I believe Syria was to some degree inevitable, because of the Arab Spring uprisings. Russia backs Assad, because he supports their goals on keeping pipelines from providing gas to Europe. And the Turks wanted Assad out because of sectarian differences and aspirations of regional dominance. The whole thing is a sloppy mess now. Nobody really knows who to bomb and who to support?
    Even during the demonstrations the dangers of civil war were clearly written on the wall, which is why it was so inexcusable that the neighbors did nothing to stop Assad. Our allies flunked that test.

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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Even during the demonstrations the dangers of civil war were clearly written on the wall, which is why it was so inexcusable that the neighbors did nothing to stop Assad. Our allies flunked that test.
    I agree completely, but they were all waiting for somebody else to take action. The Saudi's, who have the most to lose, always try to not get involved and risking their oil operations. It took someone to be right on their doorstep, to even act a little now.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    I agree completely, but they were all waiting for somebody else to take action. The Saudi's, who have the most to lose, always try to not get involved and risking their oil operations. It took someone to be right on their doorstep, to even act a little now.
    And it is a pity that our administration did not make it enough clear for the free riders in the Middle East and Europe to understand the consequences of free riding security.

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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    And it is a pity that our administration did not make it enough clear for the free riders in the Middle East and Europe to understand the consequences of free riding security.
    Our country never learns from our mistakes and keeps up the same rhetorical nonsense. They were saying on FOX today that Hong Kong protestors should keep it up, till they get democracy. I thought, how stupid can you be to keep giving the same self righteous advice that hasn't worked anywhere in the ME?
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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