View Poll Results: Who's more at fault?

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  • Bush

    7 16.67%
  • Obama

    17 40.48%
  • A bit of both.

    7 16.67%
  • Neither.

    11 26.19%
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Thread: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

  1. #41
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    tacomancer's Avatar
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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Is the rise of ISIS more of Bush's fault for invading Iraq, or more of Obama's for pulling out, then disregarding the countries direction?
    The fault is on the over zealous chuckle heads who joined isis

  2. #42
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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by tacomancer View Post
    The fault is on the over zealous chuckle heads who joined isis
    you mean the ex-bathast party members that were originally part of saddam's government?
    "If you can't stand the way this place is, Take yourself to higher places!"
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  3. #43
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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    you mean the ex-bathast party members that were originally part of saddam's government?
    That is some of those identified chuckle heads, yes

  4. #44
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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Is the rise of ISIS more of Bush's fault for invading Iraq, or more of Obama's for pulling out, then disregarding the countries direction?
    The entire debacle smells of CIA intrigue from Day One. Presidents come and go, but the Intelligence bureaucracy rolls along like a misguided bulldozer. The covert agendas of those that influence and perhaps control this Agency to suffer those huge Corporate profits that flow from wars, insurrections, instablities, coups, resource acquisitions, and controls to maintain their own continuity replace meaningful gov't agendas promoted by temporary presidents. Why else would the CIA build al Qeda and now ISIS and we find ourselves funding 10,000 "moderate" rebels in Syria. Covert agendas from Day One.

  5. #45
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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Two problems there, we're a democratic society that has been in lots of wars recently. Uhhh, we're also partially responsible for the blowouts in Syria and Libya. And our policies have exacerbated the problems with international security, not diminished, which has increased costs and lost us profit as a nation.

    Theoretically, before the Iraq War, those ideas were true.
    It was arguably the right thing to get rid of the dictator and help the demonstrators. The aftermath was poorly handled. Global society is still wrestling with what to do to uphold its r2p norm. That is not really surprising as the Norm is only about 7 years old.

  6. #46
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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Greetings, Montecresto.

    Great summation, Sir! Both truly and compassionately stated. We voice our opinions here on things happenng around the world, but they're abstract since we're thousands of miles away from people whose lives are being directly impacted by this struggle for supremacy that is taking place. Those people, including children, are the ones that I feel the most pity for, and I can't begin to imagine what life must be like for them on a daily basis! Sad.....
    Howdy Polgara, yeah, the plight of the innocence is the casualty often overlooked, sad enough as you stated!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  7. #47
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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    The American voters are responsible for the rise of ISIS. As I have said over and over, America has been the new France since the Vietnam war. Invading countries, doing a piss poor job of fighting the war even when we have had an overwhelming advantage in weaponry and technology, then retreated behind our boarders to leave the populace to the people we were fighting. ISIS is a creation of the American Publics flakiness when it comes to fighting a war.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

  8. #48
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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Not anymore.
    now that those who contained them, Hussein, Mubarak, Gaddafi and Assad are gone, true.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  9. #49
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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    It was arguably the right thing to get rid of the dictator and help the demonstrators. The aftermath was poorly handled. Global society is still wrestling with what to do to uphold its r2p norm. That is not really surprising as the Norm is only about 7 years old.
    A brutal dictator seems to be the only thing that kept those vicious fanatics under control. All we've done is remove any semblance of peace, infrastructure and success the Iraqi people once had.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  10. #50
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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    A brutal dictator seems to be the only thing that kept those vicious fanatics under control. All we've done is remove any semblance of peace, infrastructure and success the Iraqi people once had.
    Life is not easy and making it better is hard work. That does not mean it can't be made better. People said similar things about South America and Asia or Africa or even large tracts of cotinental Europe. But demicracy has taken hold and has become more widely successful than many thought possible only 100 years ago. Nope. I don't think your generalization is right.

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