View Poll Results: Who's more at fault?

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  • Bush

    7 16.67%
  • Obama

    17 40.48%
  • A bit of both.

    7 16.67%
  • Neither.

    11 26.19%
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Thread: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

  1. #31
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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    True, but because regime change in Damascus has been a long term policy goal for the US, it was allowed to escalate, in fact the US/West and a few Arab States have fueled the conflict in their own varying ways, weakening Assad and creating just the atmosphere ISI needed to add their second "S". Someone suggested that the US cannot be accountable for what Islamic extremists due, but we should have preferred containment (Hussein, Mubarak, Gaddafi and Assad) to what we have now. Whether or not its by design, big business/defense contractors are the only ones with something to gain by perpetuating these conflicts in the ME, while Americans pay in blood and treasure, and the poor souls that inhabit the region, their plight is worst of all.
    Greetings, Montecresto.

    Great summation, Sir! Both truly and compassionately stated. We voice our opinions here on things happenng around the world, but they're abstract since we're thousands of miles away from people whose lives are being directly impacted by this struggle for supremacy that is taking place. Those people, including children, are the ones that I feel the most pity for, and I can't begin to imagine what life must be like for them on a daily basis! Sad.....

  2. #32
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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Is the rise of ISIS more of Bush's fault for invading Iraq, or more of Obama's for pulling out, then disregarding the countries direction?
    I suppose it would be fair to turn the question around and ask if ISIS / ISIL would have attacked and invaded Iraq and gained the ground that they have, had the previous US troop level been maintained?

    It's been accurately observed that no one can really predict Islamic extremists actions, but to the above question, I'd have to answer "No, probably not".
    the Fix-is-in Bureau of Investigation

  3. #33
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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Greetings, Montecresto.

    Great summation, Sir! Both truly and compassionately stated. We voice our opinions here on things happenng around the world, but they're abstract since we're thousands of miles away from people whose lives are being directly impacted by this struggle for supremacy that is taking place. Those people, including children, are the ones that I feel the most pity for, and I can't begin to imagine what life must be like for them on a daily basis! Sad.....
    You can actually see what these animals are doing to people if you want to investigate, but I don't want to provide links.

    Barrack Obama has said it is up to Iraq to protect the Iraqi people which is akin to FDR saying that the Germans must protect the Jewish people during WWII. There is a genocide taking place in Iraq and not near enough is being done. Those who refuse to help these people are no better than those who would have helped the Gestapo in Germany against the Jews or Saddam Hussein's genocide against the Kurds. Those are the same Kurds, btw, we are now relying on for support in the region.

  4. #34
    Light△Bender

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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Democracies have a lower propensity to go to war or even be very aggressive in the international sphere; they normally are more liable to have more reliable legal systems and have fewer blowouts like in Syria or Libya. That reduces the risks of doing business and the costs for international security. From both we profit very strongly.
    Two problems there, we're a democratic society that has been in lots of wars recently. Uhhh, we're also partially responsible for the blowouts in Syria and Libya. And our policies have exacerbated the problems with international security, not diminished, which has increased costs and lost us profit as a nation.

    Theoretically, before the Iraq War, those ideas were true.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  5. #35
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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Of course not.we can only try to figure out how they could have come so far so fast. And one thing to learn is that letting the civil war escalate in Syria was a bad idea. Our allies in the region failed miserably.
    The mistake is expecting anything from them that would coincide with the way the western democracies think.

    What could have encouraged that idea? That's where the real failure was.

  6. #36
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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    It's neither - if you want to lay blame, it rests solely on the backs of radical clerics within the Muslim faith and with leaders/rulers in the Middle East who foster such radical views by ignoring or encouraging radical clerics within their midsts. Such views predate both Bush and Obama and it appears, at least to me, that it was only a matter of time before circumstances, such as the unrest in Syria, provided an opportunity for ISIS/ISIL/IS or whatever other name they may call themselves to strengthen and secure a secondary cause to fight for that leads to their ultimate goal.

    An IS type movement has been festering below the surface for decades in the Middle East.
    Yes, that's right, which is why they needed constant supervision into the foreseeable future. That's what happened in Europe and the troops, for some inexplicable reason, are still there. They should have been moved to where they were needed.

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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Yes it has, but it had also been contained!
    Not anymore.

  8. #38
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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Van Basten View Post
    By indirectly laying the breeding ground for such scourge to grow.
    That would be Mohamed then.

  9. #39
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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Yes, that's right, which is why they needed constant supervision into the foreseeable future. That's what happened in Europe and the troops, for some inexplicable reason, are still there. They should have been moved to where they were needed.
    I don't disagree - I think it was a mistake for Obama not to do everything possible to secure an agreement to leave US forces on the ground in Iraq but he seemed more interested in fulfilling a campaign promise than securing Iraq's fragile new democracy going forward. I notice Obama has secured such an agreement with Afghanistan where, arguably, it's far less needed.

    In some respects, I don't blame Obama for abandoning the Middle East - he was basically doing what the American people seemed to want him to do - had they not, they wouldn't have reelected him in 2012.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I don't disagree - I think it was a mistake for Obama not to do everything possible to secure an agreement to leave US forces on the ground in Iraq but he seemed more interested in fulfilling a campaign promise than securing Iraq's fragile new democracy going forward. I notice Obama has secured such an agreement with Afghanistan where, arguably, it's far less needed.

    In some respects, I don't blame Obama for abandoning the Middle East - he was basically doing what the American people seemed to want him to do - had they not, they wouldn't have reelected him in 2012.
    Well there was also 'the war on women', Bain Capital and 'gay marriage' to consider.

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