View Poll Results: Who's more at fault?

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  • Bush

    7 16.67%
  • Obama

    17 40.48%
  • A bit of both.

    7 16.67%
  • Neither.

    11 26.19%
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Thread: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

  1. #21
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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    I simply don't see the imperative for us to push democracy, period. A big portion of the world has some form of it already and it's proven to work, so if they want change, let it come slowly and naturally, without the destabilizing affects that our involvement has been creating. Obama tried to extricate us out of that quagmire but it pulled us back in.
    Democracies have a lower propensity to go to war or even be very aggressive in the international sphere; they normally are more liable to have more reliable legal systems and have fewer blowouts like in Syria or Libya. That reduces the risks of doing business and the costs for international security. From both we profit very strongly.

  2. #22
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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    we profit very strongly.
    Ding Ding Ding !!!!!! Winner winner chicken dinner.

  3. #23
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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    Ding Ding Ding !!!!!! Winner winner chicken dinner.
    Or steak as I saw in an other thread.

  4. #24
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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Is the rise of ISIS more of Bush's fault for invading Iraq, or more of Obama's for pulling out, then disregarding the countries direction?
    There were no quarters save caves and under rocks for militant Islamic jihadist who wished for a caliphate before Hussein, Mubarak, Gaddafi and Assad were deposed. US foreign policy in the ME has been beneficial to these extremists. And the roots of the Islamic State are in Iraq after Bush arrived and threw Saddam out, as there was no AQI in Iraq prior to that.

    The group's original aim was to establish an Islamic state in the Sunni-majority regions of Iraq, and following ISIL's involvement in the Syrian Civil War this expanded to include controlling Sunni-majority areas of Syria.[36] A caliphate was proclaimed on 29 June 2014, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi—now known as Amir al-Mu'minin Caliph Ibrahim—was named as its caliph, and the group was renamed the Islamic State.[5]

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam...and_the_Levant
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  5. #25
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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Is the rise of ISIS more of Bush's fault for invading Iraq, or more of Obama's for pulling out, then disregarding the countries direction?
    It's neither - if you want to lay blame, it rests solely on the backs of radical clerics within the Muslim faith and with leaders/rulers in the Middle East who foster such radical views by ignoring or encouraging radical clerics within their midsts. Such views predate both Bush and Obama and it appears, at least to me, that it was only a matter of time before circumstances, such as the unrest in Syria, provided an opportunity for ISIS/ISIL/IS or whatever other name they may call themselves to strengthen and secure a secondary cause to fight for that leads to their ultimate goal.

    An IS type movement has been festering below the surface for decades in the Middle East.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  6. #26
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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Of course not.we can only try to figure out how they could have come so far so fast. And one thing to learn is that letting the civil war escalate in Syria was a bad idea. Our allies in the region failed miserably.
    True, but because regime change in Damascus has been a long term policy goal for the US, it was allowed to escalate, in fact the US/West and a few Arab States have fueled the conflict in their own varying ways, weakening Assad and creating just the atmosphere ISI needed to add their second "S". Someone suggested that the US cannot be accountable for what Islamic extremists due, but we should have preferred containment (Hussein, Mubarak, Gaddafi and Assad) to what we have now. Whether or not its by design, big business/defense contractors are the only ones with something to gain by perpetuating these conflicts in the ME, while Americans pay in blood and treasure, and the poor souls that inhabit the region, their plight is worst of all.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  7. #27
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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    It's neither - if you want to lay blame, it rests solely on the backs of radical clerics within the Muslim faith and with leaders/rulers in the Middle East who foster such radical views by ignoring or encouraging radical clerics within their midsts. Such views predate both Bush and Obama and it appears, at least to me, that it was only a matter of time before circumstances, such as the unrest in Syria, provided an opportunity for ISIS/ISIL/IS or whatever other name they may call themselves to strengthen and secure a secondary cause to fight for that leads to their ultimate goal.

    An IS type movement has been festering below the surface for decades in the Middle East.
    Yes it has, but it had also been contained!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  8. #28
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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Who's Responsible for ISIS? ISIS and the hatred they hold for anyone who isn't ISIS. Some ideologies don't need a reason for their hatred, they will always find an excuse for hating and have been in existence longer than those whom they want to blame.

  9. #29
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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Is the rise of ISIS more of Bush's fault for invading Iraq, or more of Obama's for pulling out, then disregarding the countries direction?
    Depends on how far back you want to go. Culturally the Middle-East has a difficult time integrating with outsiders. Due to the monopoly petroleum has on personal transportation our Mid-East foreign policy has been designed to allow for the free flow of oil from the region, which necessitates our entanglement in the region. This is true whether we drill for our own oil, use theirs or a combination because as long as they are a significant player, what they do has a controlling impact on the global market. Enter the government funded madrasahs I think initially designed to create a humble population and then nationalist new media like Arab news channels that incorporate Pan-Arab pride and a portrayal of victimization by the west and it's now a breeding ground for extremism. The only way out of this mess is to convert to a transportation energy source that does not use petroleum or hope to kill our way out of it. My hope and prayer is the later would not be seriously considered however sadly it does seem to be our policy since 9/11, albeit lessened to a degree since 2008.
    Having opinions all over the map is a good sign of a person capable of autonomous thinking. Felix -2011

  10. #30
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    Re: Who's Responsible for ISIS?

    I voted both Obama and Bush. Bush mostly, but Obama didn't help the situation either.

    Still, the real blame lies with that region and its' propensity for Islamic extremism. It's a cultural problem, they need some secularism among other things badly. US foreign policy may have laid the breeding ground for it to grow, but it was always there. It's like an endless cycle. What I'd do for us to pull out of that God forsaken region.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    How can anyone else be held responsible for what Islamists do?
    By indirectly laying the breeding ground for such scourge to grow.
    Last edited by Van Basten; 10-03-14 at 10:01 AM.
    "We have more responsibility than power, I think. The newspaper can create great controversies, stir up arguments within the community or discussion, can throw light on injustices....just as it can do the opposite. It can hide things and be a great power for evil." -- Rupert Murdoch, 1968

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