How Do We End The War on Terror?

Apocalypse · Sep 28, 2014

DA60 said:
And your link to unbiased, factual proof of this is?

Funny, I haven't heard of any large Islamic attacks on Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Luxembourg, The Bahamas and on and on.

I guess al Qaeda just has not got to them yet.

Watch out Bermuda...they are coming for you!!!

Apocalypse · Sep 28, 2014

PoS said:
Did you read the last part of the article you cited?

There you go, the west are the ones encouraging all this because of their meddling.

It points towards the West how exactly? In what dreamworld? On what planet?
You're like a robot with no way of thinking on its own spreading the same absurd lines over and over again with no connection to the evidence that is presented in front of him. Your beliefs are wrong, your claims are wrong - the West meddling in the Mideast is not the reason for terrorism and surrendering to it is not the solution.
Figure it out and carry on already.

Misterveritis · Sep 28, 2014

Re: How Do We Win The War on Terror?

wist43 said:
1) Stop funding and arming the terrorists,

2) Stop bombing and manipulating foreign nations - period.

2) Stop doing business with the Saudi's and other supporters of terrorism.

3) Bring the troops home,

4) Cease immigration of muslims - period. Europe has a much larger problem in this regard, but stop the importation of muslims, and if anyone who is currently here proves to represent any threat or radicalism - revoke their citizenship and deport them.

5) Secure our own borders.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Numbers 4 and 5 appeal to me. Five is the most important step we must take if the nation is to survive. Four needs to be increased to making the additional effort to find and deport the 20-30 million illegal aliens who have invaded the nation.

Becoming energy independent by allowing the free market to thrive will be necessary before we can reduce the use of our military as you desire.

Thank you for your post.

PoS · Sep 28, 2014

Apocalypse said:
It points towards the West how exactly? In what dreamworld? On what planet?

This planet. Earth. Something called reality.

You're like a robot with no way of thinking on its own spreading the same absurd lines over and over again with no connection to the evidence that is presented in front of him. Your beliefs are wrong, your claims are wrong

My claims are backed up by reason. By logic. By history.

I dont know where you get your claims from. Youre as fanatical as these terrorists.

the West meddling in the Mideast is not the reason for terrorism

It absolutely is. Where was ISIS before the invasion of Iraq? Where was Al Qaeda before the US started supporting Isreal or stationing our troops in Saudi Arabia?

Figure it out and carry on already.

I have figured it out. The sad part is people like you (and Obama) have not.

Apocalypse · Sep 28, 2014

PoS said:
This planet. Earth. Something called reality.

Something I'm afraid you share no connection with considering your comments.

It absolutely is. Where was ISIS before the invasion of Iraq? Where was Al Qaeda before the US started supporting Isreal or stationing our troops in Saudi Arabia?

That would be Israel and yes terrorism has existed before it so there you have it.
Terrorism always existed and will always exist and the fact that even Indonesia was targeted by it is a cutting evidence that your claims are bollocks.

I have figured it out. The sad part is people like you (and Obama) have not.

So sad I'm going to drop on my knees and start crying. Any moment now.

PoS · Sep 28, 2014

Apocalypse said:
It could be one of the reasons but let's not ignore the fact that terrorism targets all kind of factions for all kind of reasons.
Your expectations that if you don't get involved with the countries the terrorism origins in it won't be reaching you in the near future are simply detached from reality.

Name me a country that has undergone an Islamic terror attack that hasnt meddled in a Muslim country.

I presented it as the conclusive solution to eradicate it from the said radical society.

But you contradicted yourself since you then claim in cannot be done. You have a very strange logic.

Believing it can be done is silly. It cannot be done.
Do entertain us however and tell us why and how you believe it can be done.

My way is even easier. Stop occupying other people. Mind your own business.

You haven't listed crimes you have listed actions that would be considered crimes under certain circumstances, whilst on the other hand terrorism, murder, thievery and so on are types of crimes.

Killing people by bombing or invading their land isnt a crime? Thats a wonderful sense of logic you have there.

So was Indonesia. But Indonesia is under threat by Islamic terrorism. Did Indonesia occupy anyone lately?

Indonesia has been dealing with terrorists within their own borders for a long time because of government crackdowns against their own homegrown radicals like JI. Thats their business since they themselves are a Muslim country. Every country has their own homegrown radicals but they dont export it unless there is an occupation by another power.

No. I support targeting the terrorists in wider, stronger means.

Explain further. Because everything that the west could have done is already being done.

DA60 · Sep 28, 2014

Apocalypse said:
2010 Stockholm bombings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (It didn't happen to Schweden!!11one)
Syrian Islamist group planning terror attack on Norway, warns intelligence service | Daily Mail Online
Norway Faces Terror Attack From Group Linked To Extremists In Syria, Officials Warn
Air France Flight 8969 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Khobar Towers bombing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Luxor massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
2002 Bali bombings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
2004 Madrid train bombings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
2004 Australian Embassy bombing in Jakarta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
7 July 2005 London bombings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Coordinated Attacks Kill Dozens in India's Financial Capital
2009 Beledweyne bombing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Peshawar church attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Westgate shopping mall attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
2011 Hotan attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I take it all those nations should stick to their own business if they don't want to be attacked.
What a waste of my time.

From what I can see, the only link to a country I listed was Sweden and an (supposed) aborted attempt in Norway. And that guy (in Sweden) was even booted out of his own mosque for his views...so clearly he was just a whacko (from your link):

' During Ramadan in 2007, after al-Abdaly tried to recruit other Muslims who shared his political views when he preached at the Luton mosque he stormed out when confronted about his beliefs[4] and was forbidden to return.'

And there is no evidence that it was ordered by al Qaeda.

And the 'aborted' attack in Norway means ZIP to me....I don't trust authorities saying they stopped attacks for one second. Could be just police trying to look good for their superiors OR politicians looking for justification for their actions.
So, you proved ZERO attacks by al Qaeda against one country I mentioned.

BTW - I point out that a non-Muslim in Norway killed far more people in a terrorist attack then any Muslim...so your theory there goes right out the window.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks

Now, are you going to answer my question or not?

You said:

'Your expectations that if you don't get involved with the countries the terrorism origins in it won't be reaching you in the near future are simply detached from reality.''

Now, where are your links that show unbiased, factual proof of your matter-of-fact statement?

MMC · Sep 28, 2014

PoS said:
Name me a country that has undergone an Islamic terror attack that hasnt meddled in a Muslim country.

But you contradicted yourself since you then claim in cannot be done. You have a very strange logic.

My way is even easier. Stop occupying other people. Mind your own business.

Killing people by bombing or invading their land isnt a crime? Thats a wonderful sense of logic you have there.

Indonesia has been dealing with terrorists within their own borders for a long time because of government crackdowns against their own homegrown radicals like JI. Thats their business since they themselves are a Muslim country. Every country has their own homegrown radicals but they dont export it unless there is an occupation by another power.

Explain further. Because everything that the west could have done is already being done.

Bangladesh would be one. Thailand would be another.

Islamists Murder 5 Thai Buddhist Monks
Rebels Kill Five Buddhists in Southern Thailand.....Thursday, February 03, 2011.....

VoA News: Thai police say suspected Muslim separatists have shot and killed five Buddhists in a violent region of southern Thailand. Police officials say gunmen in a pickup truck opened fire on the five Thursday while they sat outside a store in insurgency-plagued Pattani province. At least two people were injured.

Pattani is one of three Muslim-majority provinces in southern Thailand, where more than 4,300 people have been killed since a Muslim-led insurgency began in 2004. The region has been plagued by deadly attacks in recent weeks, including an assault on a military base last week.....snip~

Islamists Murder 5 Thai Buddhist Monks - War On Terror News

MadLib · Sep 28, 2014

DA60 said:
And there is no evidence that it was ordered by al Qaeda.

Wait, are you asking for attacks just by al-Qaeda, or for any Islamic terror attacks in general? Those are two different questions.

Apocalypse · Sep 28, 2014

PoS said:
Name me a country that has undergone an Islamic terror attack that hasnt meddled in a Muslim country.

Hilarious. I just did. Post #101 names a lot and I bet you can find way more by looking here:
List of Islamic terrorist attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That you need me to name it to you and that you do not know of the existence of such attacks yet choose to debate it is insane.

My way is even easier. Stop occupying other people. Mind your own business.

And get killed for different reasons. Good luck with that, you might as well commit suicide if this is your "way".

Killing people by bombing or invading their land isnt a crime? Thats a wonderful sense of logic you have there.

Depends on the circumstance.
Killing people isn't always a crime.
You attack a person with a knife he pulls a gun and shoots you down - a crime? Not so much.
Murder's a crime. Thievery's a crime. Terrorism's a crime.

Indonesia has been dealing with terrorists within their own borders for a long time because of government crackdowns against their own homegrown radicals like JI. Thats their business since they themselves are a Muslim country. Every country has their own homegrown radicals but they dont export it unless there is an occupation by another power.

Hilarious. You'd go so far to blame ****ing Indonesia for meddling with terrorists instead of admitting that your claim is bollocks. Simply hilarious.

Explain further. Because everything that the west could have done is already being done.

More planes, more countries involved and more attacks targeting the terrorists and killing a larger sum of them.

Apocalypse · Sep 28, 2014

DA60 said:
From what I can see, the only link to a country I listed was Sweden and an (supposed) aborted attempt in Norway. And that guy (in Sweden) was even booted out of his own mosque for his views...so clearly he was just a whacko (from your link):

' During Ramadan in 2007, after al-Abdaly tried to recruit other Muslims who shared his political views when he preached at the Luton mosque he stormed out when confronted about his beliefs[4] and was forbidden to return.'

And there is no evidence that it was ordered by al Qaeda.

And the 'aborted' attack in Norway means ZIP to me....I don't trust authorities saying they stopped attacks for one second. Could be just police trying to look good for their superiors OR politicians looking for justification for their actions.
So, you proved ZERO attacks by al Qaeda against one country I mentioned.

BTW - I point out that a non-Muslim in Norway killed far more people in a terrorist attack then any Muslim...so your theory there goes right out the window.

2011 Norway attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now, are you going to answer my question or not?

You said:

'Your expectations that if you don't get involved with the countries the terrorism origins in it won't be reaching you in the near future are simply detached from reality.''

Now, where are your links that show unbiased, factual proof of your matter-of-fact statement?

You're just as funny as your friend PoS.
I'm having fun.

So now you're asking only for al-Qaeda attacks, not just any terror attacks.
And the funniest part so far is that you actually said now you want examples of attacks on all of the nations that you have specifically listed (including the Bahamas), not just on nations that haven't occupied anyone, and you're not settling for two out of six. It's so hilarious I can't stop laughing. Your claims are bizarre sure but the way you engage in argument is way more.

Oh and you don't trust Norwegian authorities.
****ing Norway and you don't trust it.

Cephus · Sep 28, 2014

Re: How Do We Win The War on Islamic Terror?

Misterveritis said:
I am impressed with how many of you believe that Islamofascism exists because we do. Sunni and Shia have been battling one another for 1300 years for control of the political-religious conflict-based Islam that promises a sword and murder until there are no more unbelievers.

To win this phase of the war we will have to decide that our goal is to defeat and destroy Islam in the same way we defeated and destroyed National Socialism and International Socialism. It will require ending the dominance in our universities and media by the anti-American socialist left. It will require fighting and destroying the supporting structures for the worldwide terror campaigns. We need to become self sufficient in energy production as a major part of our strategy to destroy Islam.

We will have to inform countries like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Pakistan, Iran, and many others that should they continue to support groups we consider extreme we will treat them as hostile enemy nations.

We must tell the European nations that they are on their own to solve their problems. They need to man up and arm up.

We need to eliminate all immigrant Muslims who are here in the united states. They are a danger to us. We need to prevent Islamist outreach to our violent criminal populations. If we want to convert them then let's pipe nonstop conservative talk radio into their environments.

We need to decide that we cannot wage a war with no civilian casualties. We can take care but should not take undue care. In war people who have done nothing wrong die. Ending a war quickly through sustained, decisive actions will minimize the numbers of innocent dead.

We need to plan to stay in the places we go for at least one hundred years.

No, you're absolutely right, extremist Islam would exist regardless, it's been our actions in the Middle East that have made it turn on us however. Had we not interfered in the Middle East, they might be happily murdering each other (there are more than just two sects of Islam that have been involved in bloody conflicts), they wouldn't be flying planes into our buildings or targeting our reporters. They don't hate us because of our freedom, they hate us because we've been dicks.

And you're not going to destroy Islam. It's just not going to happen. It's a completely untenable political position to take. If you even attempt to do that, you'll have the international community rise up against us and I don't think that we want to go up against the rest of the planet. Most countries don't even want to bomb ISIL, our ridiculous coalition is made up of nations we're paying to give lip service to it so we don't look like we're alone already. It's all about appearances, not about actually having a coalition. And yes, we need to be energy independent, regardless of the current conflict in the Middle East.

Of course, lots of the countries that have been actively supporting ISIL are our "allies" and they are also nuclear powers and we don't attack anyone who has the potential to hurt us back. We're the bullies that kick sand in the face of 98-lb weaklings on the beach. We know that Saudi Arabia bred and trained the majority of the 9/11 hijackers, for instance, but did we go after them? Nope, we never did a thing about it. I also agree with you on Europe, but they're not willing to man up either. They've relied for so long on the U.S., which has voluntarily acted as the world's policeman, to solve their problems. We've made our own problems there too.

The rest of your plan will never fly, it's entirely unrealistic to expect us to throw out all Muslims and besides, how would you know if someone is a Muslim anyhow? Are you going to be racist and throw out everyone of Middle Eastern descent? Are you just going to throw out the Constitution? That's what would be required.

DA60 · Sep 28, 2014

Apocalypse said:
You're just as funny as your friend PoS.
I'm having fun.

So now you're asking only for al-Qaeda attacks, not just any terror attacks.
And the funniest part so far is that you actually said now you want examples of attacks on all of the nations that you have specifically listed (including the Bahamas), not just on nations that haven't occupied anyone, and you're not settling for two out of six. It's so hilarious I can't stop laughing. Your claims are bizarre sure but the way you engage in argument is way more.

Oh and you don't trust Norwegian authorities.
****ing Norway and you don't trust it.

That is twice you have avoided my question.

Again...

You said:

'Your expectations that if you don't get involved with the countries the terrorism origins in it won't be reaching you in the near future are simply detached from reality.''

Now, where are your links that show unbiased, factual proof of your matter-of-fact statement?

What if...? · Sep 28, 2014

Apocalypse said:
When people say "War on Terror" they refer to the global fight against radical Islam.
What else would they be referring to?

The IRA? Unabomber? The Oklahoma city guys?

The point is that terrorism is a tactic, not a thing that a war can be won against.

You could theoretically defeat radical Islam.

But you can't "defeat" targeting civilians to further a political agenda any more than you can "defeat" bombing with cruise missiles. One could defeat an enemy using cruise missiles completely, but the cruise missile would still exist.

Misterveritis · Sep 28, 2014

Re: How Do We Win The War on Islamic Terror?

Cephus said:
No, you're absolutely right, extremist Islam would exist regardless,

This is where you should have stopped. For as long as I have been aware of Islam we have been the Great Satan and Israel has been the Little Satan.

it's been our actions in the Middle East that have made it turn on us however. Had we not interfered in the Middle East, they might be happily murdering each other (there are more than just two sects of Islam that have been involved in bloody conflicts), they wouldn't be flying planes into our buildings or targeting our reporters. They don't hate us because of our freedom, they hate us because we've been dicks.

I see. They hate us because we buy Middle Eastern Oil. They also hate us because we support Israel.

Is your first instinct to blame America? If so you are probably an anti-American leftist.

And you're not going to destroy Islam. It's just not going to happen. It's a completely untenable political position to take.

Had you been around in the late 1930s I am certain you would have said the same about National Socialism.

And yet here we are. National Socialism is no longer a threat. It was just as hateful as Islam is. To defeat a hateful ideology one must first choose to do so.

If you even attempt to do that, you'll have the international community rise up against us

Who are they, exactly? How many divisions do they have?

and I don't think that we want to go up against the rest of the planet. Most countries don't even want to bomb ISIL, our ridiculous coalition is made up of nations we're paying to give lip service to it so we don't look like we're alone already.

Perhaps it is because their leaders have allowed a large number of Islamists into their countries and they a too meek to send them all home.

Misterveritis · Sep 28, 2014

Re: How Do We Win The War on Islamic Terror?

Cephus said:
. . .it's been our actions in the Middle East that have made it turn on us however. Had we not interfered in the Middle East, they might be happily murdering each other (there are more than just two sects of Islam that have been involved in bloody conflicts), they wouldn't be flying planes into our buildings or targeting our reporters. They don't hate us because of our freedom, they hate us because we've been dicks.

. . . We're the bullies that kick sand in the face of 98-lb weaklings on the beach. . . . We've made our own problems there [in Europe] too.

Am I wrong to see that you are largely anti-American? It has been our actions...had we not interfered...we made our own problems...we are the bullies?

Thanks.

Cephus · Sep 28, 2014

Re: How Do We Win The War on Islamic Terror?

Misterveritis said:
This is where you should have stopped. For as long as I have been aware of Islam we have been the Great Satan and Israel has been the Little Satan.

Because we've been meddling in their affairs for a long, long, long time, back at least as far as 1954, probably longer.

I see. They hate us because we buy Middle Eastern Oil. They also hate us because we support Israel.

No, they don't hate us because we buy their oil but because we tell them what to do with their oil, how to run their countries, we depose their governments and impose dictators, we invade them because we don't like what they're doing, etc. And yes, some of it is because we support Israel, which I don't think we ought to be doing either.

Is your first instinct to blame America? If so you are probably an anti-American leftist.

Nope, it's to deal with reality. We're just a country, like everyone else. We're not special, we don't get extra rights and privileges, we're part of the world community yet we've been trying to be big dog on the block. That's our problem.

Had you been around in the late 1930s I am certain you would have said the same about National Socialism.

No, National Socialism invaded other sovereign countries. Had they been content to stay inside Germany, I couldn't care less how they run their own nation. The same is true of Islam. They can do what they want to do within their own sphere of influence. We need to learn to keep our nose out of other people's business.

And yet here we are. National Socialism is no longer a threat. It was just as hateful as Islam is. To defeat a hateful ideology one must first choose to do so.

Islam is not a hateful belief system, only the most extremist factions are. There are plenty of hateful factions of Christianity, should we wipe out all Christians because there are a lot of idiots too?

Who are they, exactly? How many divisions do they have?

You want to go to war with the planet? Seriously?

Perhaps it is because their leaders have allowed a large number of Islamists into their countries and they a too meek to send them all home.

Then hell, let's expel all Christians from America too. Throw out all of the religious people. They cause too many problems.

Cephus · Sep 28, 2014

Re: How Do We Win The War on Islamic Terror?

Misterveritis said:
Am I wrong to see that you are largely anti-American? It has been our actions...had we not interfered...we made our own problems...we are the bullies?

Thanks.

And you're an ignorant pro-American apologist. You think the nation can do no wrong. Thanks.

Misterveritis · Sep 28, 2014

Re: How Do We Win The War on Islamic Terror?

"Am I wrong to see that you are largely anti-American? It has been our actions...had we not interfered...we made our own problems...we are the bullies?"

Cephus said:
And you're an ignorant pro-American apologist. You think the nation can do no wrong. Thanks.

You should have just said "Yes, Mr. Veritis. I am an anti-American leftist."

That would have been correct and sufficient.

Apocalypse · Sep 28, 2014

DA60 said:
That is twice you have avoided my question.

Again...

You said:

'Your expectations that if you don't get involved with the countries the terrorism origins in it won't be reaching you in the near future are simply detached from reality.''

Now, where are your links that show unbiased, factual proof of your matter-of-fact statement?

I provided evidence - not that I see why I had to since it should be the obvious - that Islamic terrorists target not just states that involve themselves with the lands of Iraq, Syria and others, but also seemingly uninvolved states such as Indonesia, China and India. That proves beyond any doubt that terrorism may choose to strike countries even if they're not occupying their majestic lands of Allah. Shocking really.

Now it is my turn to ask a question - do you really believe this bollocks? That a complete disengagement from Mideast issues will lead to peaceful times for the US, will guard it from Islamic terrorism? Are you really that naive?

The United States represents the West, with all of the values that radical Islam despises, what on earth made you take to the opinion that they'll cease their attacks on it if it won't involve itself with the Mideast anymore? This is simply stupid, can't find a better word to describe it.

Hard Truth · Sep 28, 2014

US Conservative said:
The ottomans missed out on the oil boom (thankfully) but if they had not, looking at the genocides in Greece, Armenia, etc it would have been antagonistic to the west, and probably many more would have been killed. Its not to wild to see them joining the Axis in WW2, meaning the war in eastern europe, north Africa, and the mediterranean would have been protratd.

On the other hand, if Attaturk still came to power his promotion of secular government, relatively democratic government and literacy might have spread throughout the region.

Hard Truth · Sep 28, 2014

US Conservative said:
The left and its labels. :doh

The dictionary and its labels.

A leading Bush II administration figure, I believe it was Rumsfeld, also wanted to call it a war on Islamist extremists instead of the war on terror because it is more accurate and you can't expect to wina war against a technique. Using accurate terms makes for better communication.

Hard Truth · Sep 28, 2014

MMC said:
I'm talking about the Buddhists that were in Iraq. They were never part of the war. The point is.....they went after those who did nothing to them. But live there.

I think you mean Afghanistan. There were never a significant number of Buddhists in Iraq.

Apocalypse · Sep 28, 2014

Hard Truth said:
The dictionary and its labels.

A leading Bush II administration figure, I believe it was Rumsfeld, also wanted to call it a war on Islamist extremists instead of the war on terror because it is more accurate and you can't expect to wina war against a technique. Using accurate terms makes for better communication.

That's kinda ridiculous though, you cannot expect to win a war on the extremists of Islam anymore than you can on terrorists.
One is an ideology, an idea a person has that makes him a radical Islamist, the other is the willingness to carry an attack on innocents for political gain.
They're equally beatable and the labels argument is quite silly.

DA60 · Sep 28, 2014

Apocalypse said:
I provided evidence - not that I see why I had to since it should be the obvious - that Islamic terrorists target not just states that involve themselves with the lands of Iraq, Syria and others, but also seemingly uninvolved states such as Indonesia, China and India. That proves beyond any doubt that terrorism may choose to strike countries even if they're not occupying their majestic lands of Allah. Shocking really.

Now it is my turn to ask a question - do you really believe this bollocks? That a complete disengagement from Mideast issues will lead to peaceful times for the US, will guard it from Islamic terrorism? Are you really that naive?

The United States represents the West, with all of the values that radical Islam despises, what on earth made you take to the opinion that they'll cease their attacks on it if it won't involve itself with the Mideast anymore? This is simply stupid, can't find a better word to describe it.

I said 'proof'...not 'evidence'. ANYTHING can be 'evidence'.

So, those links are your 'unbiased, factual proof' of your statement?

Clearly you don't know what 'factual' and 'proof' mean.

So be it.

Your question?

I don't believe America will stop being a target for al Qaeda/ISIS so long as a) the former keeps meddling in the ME and/or b) al Qaeda/ISIS believe they can goad America to meddle in the ME by threatening/carrying out terrorist attacks against her.

No doubt you disagree.

No doubt I don't much care.

We are done here, for now.

Good day.

How Do We End The War on Terror?

What Should We Do To End The Terror War?

The West is doing the right thing.

We need more WAAAUGH! We need to bomb more! Boots on the ground!

The West needs to change their foreign policy. Stop meddling in other countries.

Other

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!

Minister of Love

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!

Minister of Love

monstrous vermin

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!