View Poll Results: What Should We Do To End The Terror War?

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  • The West is doing the right thing.

    6 8.82%
  • We need more WAAAUGH! We need to bomb more! Boots on the ground!

    6 8.82%
  • The West needs to change their foreign policy. Stop meddling in other countries.

    38 55.88%
  • Other

    18 26.47%
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Thread: How Do We End The War on Terror?

  1. #451
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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Your argument fails in that Islamist target isn't just Western Nations

    Islamist have also carried out attacks on strategic adversaries like Russia and China. France consistently argued against military action, but that hasn't stopped the violence that is occurring there. Indonesia had nothing to do with the Coalition of the Willing, didn't start the bombings there.

    I am talking about this myth that these groups hate us because were free. It has nothing to do with it. Do i need to remind you of who created osama bin laden and gave him the power in the first place? Yes they targeted russia but it was with american funds in a backlash on the the russian war in afgahnistan. We have no business over there. There is going to be constant warfare in the middle east its been going on for thousands and thousands of years. we cant expect america to even try to stop it because we are simply unable to do so. The answer is not sending troops to die in battles that have no business to us what so ever besides protecting oil interests and nation building. The idea that we need to stay in the middle east is only adding more fuel to the hatred of the empire our nation has become and the more troops we send the more nation building the more colonization we will be doing and its just going to make the matters worse, so lets stay out of it. a big majority of americans agree with me that we have absolutly no business there and the only reason they are a threat to us is because of our direct envolvement

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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by Libertie76 View Post
    If this is the case why arent these groups targeting places like switzerland and sweden? Its not the ideals of islam to wage war on everyone, but when multiple countries are constintaly bombing their countries and towns there going to be upset and want to fight back. The foreign policy of the united states is what started this whole mess to begin with. It's very obtvious, we arm regimes to take out countries, we pay for the overthrowing of leaders and nations. We wanted to go to war a year ago to take out assad, and now assad seems to be one of the few people that is actually fighting ISIS, so we arm rebels that are fighting ASSAD with millions of dollars in weapons! The united states and its major allies are the reason this group is conducting the business it is conducting. We need to leave them alone, we need to allow the good people of these countries to fight for themselves or itll be more and more money millions and millions of dollars more and more death. And the fact that conservatives actually believe we should spend time in there is just beyond ludacris to me, considering we can not even afford to pay for our veterans. Atleast a majority of people agree with me
    Islam is invading the West. They take advantage of liberal immigration policies and come into Western nations. They congretate in urban stongholds, establish mosques, and spread from there, as they are in Sweeden.

    LiveLeak.com - ISLAMIC INVASION OF SWEDEN HAS LED TO RAPE CRISIS.

    As more Islamics come in, there will be less "Lone Wolf" attacks by radicals like at Ft. Hood and the Boston Marathon, and more cooridinated efforts like those of al Queada and ISIS.

    The question is, will you convert or die?
    “Egotist, n. A person of low taste, more interested in himself than in me.”
    ― Ambrose Bierce, The Unabridged Devil's Dictionary

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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flamethrower View Post
    Islam is invading the West. They take advantage of liberal immigration policies and come into Western nations. They congretate in urban stongholds, establish mosques, and spread from there, as they are in Sweeden.

    LiveLeak.com - ISLAMIC INVASION OF SWEDEN HAS LED TO RAPE CRISIS.

    As more Islamics come in, there will be less "Lone Wolf" attacks by radicals like at Ft. Hood and the Boston Marathon, and more cooridinated efforts like those of al Queada and ISIS.

    The question is, will you convert or die?

    In regards to conversion or death what it really sounds like to me is will you trade more of your liberties or die. The boston bombing has been a result of many different speculations some even say right wingers and constitutionalists are behind the reasons for the boston bombing, Lets remember the history of tsarnaev brothers, one of them has been declassified as working alongside the CIA in Russia, and Russia actually said to have him leave because he blew his cover. So what is this fundamentalist jihadist doing in russia working with the CIA? Let me put it to you simply, our foreign policy in the middle east dating back to the 1950s has been involved in nation building, coups, and the overthrowing of governments for over a 50 years. We as a nation have systematically paid for the destabilization in almost every single third world country around the world through means of crony capitalism, corporatism, and false loans by the world bank and the IMF. The issue here is that these "terrorist regimes" are starting because of our countries foreign policy. If you for one minute think that we should turn in our own liberties and submit to a police state to fight terrorists you are out of your mind. According to your article on the swedish rapes, can you by any means show me that these muslims are radical jihadists? According to your statement we should declare war on islam in general? should we also declare war on gun owners? How about we declare war on mexicans because of the mass deaths due to the drug trade? Your article shows no facts suggesting that our foreign policy is actually protecting us from islamic jihadists. In fact we are adding more fuel to the fire by arming the rebel groups and bombing syria. If your concerned with ISIS invading america you should focus your attention on what the constitution actually allows the federal government to do and that is to protect the borders instead of protecting the interests of saudi arabia

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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by Libertie76 View Post
    In regards to conversion or death what it really sounds like to me is will you trade more of your liberties or die. The boston bombing has been a result of many different speculations some even say right wingers and constitutionalists are behind the reasons for the boston bombing, Lets remember the history of tsarnaev brothers, one of them has been declassified as working alongside the CIA in Russia, and Russia actually said to have him leave because he blew his cover. So what is this fundamentalist jihadist doing in russia working with the CIA? Let me put it to you simply, our foreign policy in the middle east dating back to the 1950s has been involved in nation building, coups, and the overthrowing of governments for over a 50 years. We as a nation have systematically paid for the destabilization in almost every single third world country around the world through means of crony capitalism, corporatism, and false loans by the world bank and the IMF. The issue here is that these "terrorist regimes" are starting because of our countries foreign policy. If you for one minute think that we should turn in our own liberties and submit to a police state to fight terrorists you are out of your mind. According to your article on the swedish rapes, can you by any means show me that these muslims are radical jihadists? According to your statement we should declare war on islam in general? should we also declare war on gun owners? How about we declare war on mexicans because of the mass deaths due to the drug trade? Your article shows no facts suggesting that our foreign policy is actually protecting us from islamic jihadists. In fact we are adding more fuel to the fire by arming the rebel groups and bombing syria. If your concerned with ISIS invading america you should focus your attention on what the constitution actually allows the federal government to do and that is to protect the borders instead of protecting the interests of saudi arabia
    Try spacing-out your thoughts---

    ---much easier to digest.

    Obviously, the whole Tsarnaev family are anti-Chistian, anti-American. I don't see the problem as being the work of decades of CIA abuse. The West, in its foolishness, had a allowed too many Islamics inside her borders.

    Islam is faith and a politacal system. Yes, very moderate and liberal Mulsims can tolerate democracy---but can easily be swayed by radical fundamentalist who have a more literal view of the Koran. Those non-Sunni Muslims caught by ISIS are not treated well. Any country that allows any significant number of Islamics to come in will have a certain percentage of them already having very radical views. There is no penalty for lying to an infidel.

    Being a big fan of the Constitution, probably exponentially more than you, I do not tolerate cencorship of free speech or the exsistance of laws against "hate speech." Here's what happened in Sweden:

    Sweden Democrat Party politician Michael Hess of Karlskrona was sentenced today (May 8, 2014) to a fine for hate speech after having connected the religion of Islam with rape.

    According to the judgment, the statement is not part of a “factual and authoritative discussion” and it thus it does not matter whether or not the statement is true.

    The indictment concerned a comment on Facebook that Hess wrote next to an article in Aftonbladet, which was about women who were raped in Tahrir Square in Cairo.

    “When are you journalists going to realize that it is deeply ingrained in Islamic culture to rape and mistreat those women who do not abide by the teachings of Islam? [Data] is widely available showing the connection between the rapes in Sweden and number of migrants from Middle Eastern and North African countries,” wrote the SD politician.

    Hess, who has lived in the Middle East for eleven years, argued that the comment did in fact initiate a debate and persuade journalists to examine the phenomenon more deeply.

    As proof of his innocence, Michael Hess including a summary of studies showing that men with ancestry from Muslim countries are very much overrepresented in Swedish rape statistics. This includes official figures from the National Council, which show that men from North Africa and Iraq are involved in rapes 23 and 20 times more often than Swedes.
    http://chersonandmolschky.com/2014/0...-speech-islam/

    Swedish politician convicted of a crime for posting statistics about rape on Facebook

    If Muslims were forbidden to imigrate here, unless they publicaly deny their anti-Christian, anti-Semetic, anti-Western faith, then the US wouldn't have much of a domestic terror problem.

    If the US really wanted to fight terror overseas, they would demand all terror groups follow the Genva Convention. Groups like ISIS that don't should be killed whenever they are found. Also, any mosque that terrorist use to recruit members and use for miltary purposes should be leveled to the ground.
    “Egotist, n. A person of low taste, more interested in himself than in me.”
    ― Ambrose Bierce, The Unabridged Devil's Dictionary

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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    people think a certain way about us through propaganda and hatred /religon may be a no win situation....

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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by Libertie76 View Post
    I am talking about this myth that these groups hate us because were free. It has nothing to do with it. Do i need to remind you of who created osama bin laden and gave him the power in the first place? Yes they targeted russia but it was with american funds in a backlash on the the russian war in afgahnistan. We have no business over there. There is going to be constant warfare in the middle east its been going on for thousands and thousands of years. we cant expect america to even try to stop it because we are simply unable to do so. The answer is not sending troops to die in battles that have no business to us what so ever besides protecting oil interests and nation building. The idea that we need to stay in the middle east is only adding more fuel to the hatred of the empire our nation has become and the more troops we send the more nation building the more colonization we will be doing and its just going to make the matters worse, so lets stay out of it. a big majority of americans agree with me that we have absolutly no business there and the only reason they are a threat to us is because of our direct involvement
    I have only one response to that blob of words you call a response...

    How Do We End The War on Terror?-persona_negativa_2-jpg

    Bottom line, you are right in saying that it's not because we're "free". Actually, as we've seen, there more than happy to exploit "free societies" to spread their vile ideology. But beyond that, all the current woes in the ME go back to the Arab Spring, not anything the US did. Even if we hadn't removed Saddam, the Arab Spring would of still happened, and there'd be another Civil War going on Iraq. These radical outfits like AQ though would continue to attack us, mainly because we the ones stopping their GLOBAL agenda. I stress GLOBAL, because unlike ISIS that at the moment is a regional problem, AQ has proven to be a problem not only for the countries there in, but all over.

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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flamethrower View Post
    Try spacing-out your thoughts---

    ---much easier to digest.

    Obviously, the whole Tsarnaev family are anti-Chistian, anti-American. I don't see the problem as being the work of decades of CIA abuse. The West, in its foolishness, had a allowed too many Islamics inside her borders.

    Islam is faith and a politacal system. Yes, very moderate and liberal Mulsims can tolerate democracy---but can easily be swayed by radical fundamentalist who have a more literal view of the Koran. Those non-Sunni Muslims caught by ISIS are not treated well. Any country that allows any significant number of Islamics to come in will have a certain percentage of them already having very radical views. There is no penalty for lying to an infidel.

    Being a big fan of the Constitution, probably exponentially more than you, I do not tolerate cencorship of free speech or the exsistance of laws against "hate speech." Here's what happened in Sweden:

    Sweden Democrat Party politician Michael Hess of Karlskrona was sentenced today (May 8, 2014) to a fine for hate speech after having connected the religion of Islam with rape.

    According to the judgment, the statement is not part of a “factual and authoritative discussion” and it thus it does not matter whether or not the statement is true.

    The indictment concerned a comment on Facebook that Hess wrote next to an article in Aftonbladet, which was about women who were raped in Tahrir Square in Cairo.

    “When are you journalists going to realize that it is deeply ingrained in Islamic culture to rape and mistreat those women who do not abide by the teachings of Islam? [Data] is widely available showing the connection between the rapes in Sweden and number of migrants from Middle Eastern and North African countries,” wrote the SD politician.

    Hess, who has lived in the Middle East for eleven years, argued that the comment did in fact initiate a debate and persuade journalists to examine the phenomenon more deeply.

    As proof of his innocence, Michael Hess including a summary of studies showing that men with ancestry from Muslim countries are very much overrepresented in Swedish rape statistics. This includes official figures from the National Council, which show that men from North Africa and Iraq are involved in rapes 23 and 20 times more often than Swedes.
    http://chersonandmolschky.com/2014/0...-speech-islam/

    Swedish politician convicted of a crime for posting statistics about rape on Facebook

    If Muslims were forbidden to imigrate here, unless they publicaly deny their anti-Christian, anti-Semetic, anti-Western faith, then the US wouldn't have much of a domestic terror problem.

    If the US really wanted to fight terror overseas, they would demand all terror groups follow the Genva Convention. Groups like ISIS that don't should be killed whenever they are found. Also, any mosque that terrorist use to recruit members and use for miltary purposes should be leveled to the ground.
    I respect your input and am glad that you are a supporter of the constitution, that being said you should realize that our constitution gives liberties to practice of freedom of religion and speech which i'm sure you are a fan of.

    The reality is however, you still have not shown me any evidence denying that our foreign policy is playing the biggest role for us as a nation in this fiasco. We have funded these groups for decades and continually do so with tax payer dollars.

    You are right that there are sects of the muslim religion that demand the death of infidels, but if we look at history Catholicism has killed millions and millions of people in the name of conversion to christianity, even unknown numbers amount of people here in america in the name of christianity. Does that suggest that christians inherently are evil or catholics should denounce the pope due to the history of the religion?

    I can show you articles of white victims in america blaming black people for the higher rape statistics does that mean blacks are inherently evil as the muslims in sweden?

    I agree ISIS needs to be stopped with the killings and the rapings in the middle east, but its our foreign policy that is allowing it to continue, and the saudis as well as the american military industrial complex benefits on these groups.

    I feel if a muslim is immigrating here they are doing so because they are not anti-christian or anti western but they are in search for a new better life, i have met many nice honorable muslim people in my life and not one radical jihadist and i live in san francisco probably one of the most diverse cities in america, once we start blaming a certain group we will start blaming another group and impose more laws more regulation more policies that create more terrorists and then the government will deem them as enemies until it spins out of control like every single empire in the history of mankind.

    And please explain yourself in your message when you say you are more of a fan of the constitution then i am and you do not want to censor freedom of speech because the rest of your dialog refers to a censorship of muslim religion. Lets remember they are burning american flags and threatening americans because we are free and prosperous they are burning flags and threatening america because we have been over there for over 50 years imposing laws and nation building to support our economic empire. The fact that the west is over there to begin with is radicalizing them. Imagine if china were here imposing laws and throwing out every real leader we get into power and then bombing us. As well as imposing impossible sanctions to further put us into poverty and collapse our country for years, wouldnt you become an anti chinese "terrorist" i mean its just simple logic here.

    Finally, if you are a big admirer of the constitution you have to understand that the war in the middle east is completely unconstitutional, we took out saddam hussein who was fighting al-qaeda, we bombed libya, who was fighting Al-qaeda, We are now bombing the assad regime who is fighting ISIS. The list continues to grow, these nations pose no direct threat to our rights as americans, lets get the hell out of there we've already spent trillions and trillions and trillions of dollars on this war. We were promised we wouldnt nation build, we were promised it was in the name of national security and it is not. Our country is on the verge of bankruptcy and continues to spend trillions of dollars on a war that will never end because we are literally funding both sides

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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    I have only one response to that blob of words you call a response...

    How Do We End The War on Terror?-persona_negativa_2-jpg

    Bottom line, you are right in saying that it's not because we're "free". Actually, as we've seen, there more than happy to exploit "free societies" to spread their vile ideology. But beyond that, all the current woes in the ME go back to the Arab Spring, not anything the US did. Even if we hadn't removed Saddam, the Arab Spring would of still happened, and there'd be another Civil War going on Iraq. These radical outfits like AQ though would continue to attack us, mainly because we the ones stopping their GLOBAL agenda. I stress GLOBAL, because unlike ISIS that at the moment is a regional problem, AQ has proven to be a problem not only for the countries there in, but all over.
    You forgot the point were we actually created Al-Qaeda in the first place, and you're missing the point in the war in afgahnistan during the Air-lift of evil. You are right theyd probably still be fighting in the middle east, but that does not mean it is our problem. Once we start policing the world we start dictating laws and creating policies and setting up fake governments it's all in the name of expanding our empire.

    Do some research on the air-lift of evil, as well as the fundamental creating of Al-Qaeda and which country has actually been the only ones to benefit from all this bloodshed. No surprise here, Bin laden was a son of the royal saudis, no surprise the fall of every nation is adding to monopolization of Saudi Arabia. I mean you call yourself a libertarian but your actually proposing the additional policies in policing the world that our country is imposing with its foreign policy.

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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    [QUOTE=Hamster Buddha;1063861569]I have only one response to that blob of words you call a response...

    How Do We End The War on Terror?-persona_negativa_2-jpg

    But beyond that, all the current woes in the ME go back to the Arab Spring, not anything the US did. Even if we hadn't removed Saddam, the Arab Spring would of still happened,


    Just for fun you might want to read this article on the washington post and how our foreign policy directly inflated the arab spring incident http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/15/wo...&_r=3&emc=eta1

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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by Libertie76 View Post
    I respect your input and am glad that you are a supporter of the constitution, that being said you should realize that our constitution gives liberties to practice of freedom of religion and speech which i'm sure you are a fan of.

    The reality is however, you still have not shown me any evidence denying that our foreign policy is playing the biggest role for us as a nation in this fiasco. We have funded these groups for decades and continually do so with tax payer dollars.

    You are right that there are sects of the muslim religion that demand the death of infidels, but if we look at history Catholicism has killed millions and millions of people in the name of conversion to christianity, even unknown numbers amount of people here in america in the name of christianity. Does that suggest that christians inherently are evil or catholics should denounce the pope due to the history of the religion?

    I can show you articles of white victims in america blaming black people for the higher rape statistics does that mean blacks are inherently evil as the muslims in sweden?

    I agree ISIS needs to be stopped with the killings and the rapings in the middle east, but its our foreign policy that is allowing it to continue, and the saudis as well as the american military industrial complex benefits on these groups.

    I feel if a muslim is immigrating here they are doing so because they are not anti-christian or anti western but they are in search for a new better life, i have met many nice honorable muslim people in my life and not one radical jihadist and i live in san francisco probably one of the most diverse cities in america, once we start blaming a certain group we will start blaming another group and impose more laws more regulation more policies that create more terrorists and then the government will deem them as enemies until it spins out of control like every single empire in the history of mankind.

    And please explain yourself in your message when you say you are more of a fan of the constitution then i am and you do not want to censor freedom of speech because the rest of your dialog refers to a censorship of muslim religion. Lets remember they are burning american flags and threatening americans because we are free and prosperous they are burning flags and threatening america because we have been over there for over 50 years imposing laws and nation building to support our economic empire. The fact that the west is over there to begin with is radicalizing them. Imagine if china were here imposing laws and throwing out every real leader we get into power and then bombing us. As well as imposing impossible sanctions to further put us into poverty and collapse our country for years, wouldnt you become an anti chinese "terrorist" i mean its just simple logic here.

    Finally, if you are a big admirer of the constitution you have to understand that the war in the middle east is completely unconstitutional, we took out saddam hussein who was fighting al-qaeda, we bombed libya, who was fighting Al-qaeda, We are now bombing the assad regime who is fighting ISIS. The list continues to grow, these nations pose no direct threat to our rights as americans, lets get the hell out of there we've already spent trillions and trillions and trillions of dollars on this war. We were promised we wouldnt nation build, we were promised it was in the name of national security and it is not. Our country is on the verge of bankruptcy and continues to spend trillions of dollars on a war that will never end because we are literally funding both sides
    Well, what the Founders' views on "religious freedoms" were are not really the same. All of the Founders were of Christian background, if not faith. Some were Diests and Atheists, but all saw America as a nation of Christians and Christian values. There were no Mulsims, Buddists, Hindus, Wiccans, Shintoists anywhere to be found running anything in the colonies. However, there were all the pagan Amerindian tribes, who's religion was usually based on finding one's own "magic." The majority of the early Western Americans did their level best to rid the Amerindians of their pagan religions. However, it was never the Islamic "convert or die."

    In fact the Religious freedom the Founders were concerned with was that of Catholics/Protestants governments and Kingdoms running the nation. Islam was of no importance then.

    Yes, yes, Chistains and Westerners have been fighting each other, like every other people on the planet since the beginning of time.

    But, where are the Christian terror groups today??? Are there even any to speak of? Maybe the IRA?

    As far as nationbuilding and support to Islamic peoples over time---It's not a right/wrong idea---it is a stategy of taking the fight to the enemy instead of fighting him here on US soil. Allowing large numbers of any Islamic people in of any sect (but particularly Sunni and Shia)---is asking for trouble.

    There are good Mulsims in the US. One college professor was an Iranian who fled after the Revolution in 1979. Even though is first name is Mohammed---he is no radical---and not even a flamming liberal.

    So America should no more tolerate Islam, than the Spanish tolerated the pagan Aztec religion that sacrificed their enemies on the tops of temples.
    “Egotist, n. A person of low taste, more interested in himself than in me.”
    ― Ambrose Bierce, The Unabridged Devil's Dictionary

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