View Poll Results: What Should We Do To End The Terror War?

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  • The West is doing the right thing.

    6 8.82%
  • We need more WAAAUGH! We need to bomb more! Boots on the ground!

    6 8.82%
  • The West needs to change their foreign policy. Stop meddling in other countries.

    38 55.88%
  • Other

    18 26.47%
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Thread: How Do We End The War on Terror?

  1. #331
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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    For me Iraq was the next liberation mission following Dardania in 1999. Plus Saddam and Milosevic and the Serbian government were and are still getting along better. Saddam supported Milosevic so he had it coming!

    We are Muslim (shallow but Muslim nevertheless) by majority, while Serbia followed a dictatorship rule. Between such options Iraq choose the dictatorship regime of Serbia and choose to support it instead of us while we and Iraq share a similar religion.

    Things should have changed after the dictatorship in Iraq and Serbia mellowed. Now both regimes do not share the same type of government (not officially at least). But Iraq has not recognized us still to this day.
    Well, at least now I know why you think it perfectly ok for a president of the US to lie us into a war.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  2. #332
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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    To tell you the truth,I do not think he lied.
    "In short, the Bush administration led the nation to war on the basis of erroneous information that it methodically propagated and that culminated in military action against Iraq on March 19, 2003," reads an overview of the examination, conducted by the Center for Public Integrity and its affiliated group, the Fund for Independence in Journalism.

    According to the study, Bush and seven top officials -- including Vice President Dick Cheney, former Secretary of State Colin Powell and then-National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice -- made 935 false statements about Iraq during those two years.

    The study was based on a searchable database compiled of primary sources, such as official government transcripts and speeches, and secondary sources -- mainly quotes from major media organizations. See CNN viewers' reactions to the study »

    The study says Bush made 232 false statements about Iraq and former leader Saddam Hussein's possessing weapons of mass destruction, and 28 false statements about Iraq's links to al Qaeda.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/23/bush.iraq/

    While the Senate Intelligence Committee found in 2008 that his administration "misrepresented the intelligence and the threat from Iraq".[18] A key CIA informant in Iraq admitted that he lied about his allegations, "then watched in shock as it was used to justify the war".[19]

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_...ss_destruction
    Last edited by Montecresto; 10-07-14 at 11:11 AM.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  3. #333
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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    "In short, the Bush administration led the nation to war on the basis of erroneous information that it methodically propagated and that culminated in military action against Iraq on March 19, 2003," reads an overview of the examination, conducted by the Center for Public Integrity and its affiliated group, the Fund for Independence in Journalism.

    According to the study, Bush and seven top officials -- including Vice President Dick Cheney, former Secretary of State Colin Powell and then-National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice -- made 935 false statements about Iraq during those two years.

    The study was based on a searchable database compiled of primary sources, such as official government transcripts and speeches, and secondary sources -- mainly quotes from major media organizations. See CNN viewers' reactions to the study »

    The study says Bush made 232 false statements about Iraq and former leader Saddam Hussein's possessing weapons of mass destruction, and 28 false statements about Iraq's links to al Qaeda.

    Study: Bush, aides made 935 false statements in run-up to war - CNN.com
    Did you participate in the a priori discussions back then? It sounds as though you had not and did not follow both sides very closely.

    As to the study, I cannot really tell, what it says. The CNN write up says that the statements were false but avoids saying that they were intentionally false, which would constitute a lie. There were certainly statements made that were incorrect. Nobody would say differently. But a lie is something altogether else.

    Also it appears that the Study does not address the fact that the whereabouts of the WMD that had been identified by UN inspectors after the first expedition and not destroyed was not relieved though the dictator was faced by a lethal threat. That was actually the clincher. You see, had Saddam explained, where they had gone and let the inspectors run free in the country, he would still be in place. The Administration would never have been able to take him out only because he was at the time allowing tens of Thousands to die as reported by the UN. The allies would not have supported it and neither would the Senate or Congress have done so. But he did not comply with the Security Council Resolution.

    I am sorry. I know that there are lots of people that would like Bush to have lied. But that is not substantiated and does not fit the logic of the situation back then. The idea is silly. There were too many people involved. Nobody could have kept that secret.

  4. #334
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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    You fight it by starting at the top and make being a leader an automatic death sentence. Don't just take out a couple of top guys, but take out everyone who gives orders to more than a dozen or so people. Put bounties on their heads and let the people they are attacking/oppressing/leading(?) make some bank off this while we're at it. While you're doing that, you aggressively pursue the financiers. Actively and intentionally work towards bankrupting them using any means possible (short of killing/harming innocents - so we're not going to be bombing factories just to cut off the cash flow).
    Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

  5. #335
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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Did you participate in the a priori discussions back then? It sounds as though you had not and did not follow both sides very closely.

    As to the study, I cannot really tell, what it says. The CNN write up says that the statements were false but avoids saying that they were intentionally false, which would constitute a lie. There were certainly statements made that were incorrect. Nobody would say differently. But a lie is something altogether else.

    Also it appears that the Study does not address the fact that the whereabouts of the WMD that had been identified by UN inspectors after the first expedition and not destroyed was not relieved though the dictator was faced by a lethal threat. That was actually the clincher. You see, had Saddam explained, where they had gone and let the inspectors run free in the country, he would still be in place. The Administration would never have been able to take him out only because he was at the time allowing tens of Thousands to die as reported by the UN. The allies would not have supported it and neither would the Senate or Congress have done so. But he did not comply with the Security Council Resolution.

    I am sorry. I know that there are lots of people that would like Bush to have lied. But that is not substantiated and does not fit the logic of the situation back then. The idea is silly. There were too many people involved. Nobody could have kept that secret.
    You conveniently edited the second quote/link out. The senate intelligence committee found that the Bush administration misrepresented the intelligence!

    mis·rep·re·sent
    ˌmisˌreprəˈzent/
    verb
    past tense: misrepresented; past participle: misrepresented
    give a false or misleading account of the nature of.
    "you are misrepresenting the views of the government"


    And who said it was kept secret? Hans Blix, Joe Wilson, Curvball, the Downing Street memo, and a plethora of evidence has been chronicled. But in the end, fear won. Do we have to wait for the smoking gun to come in the form of a mushroom cloud.
    Last edited by Montecresto; 10-07-14 at 11:52 AM.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  6. #336
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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Destruction/decimation.
    When?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  7. #337
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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    Thats what we are doing arent we?
    Last count I heard was 258 sorties over the past month. During Desert Storm we flee hundreds of sorties a day. We're nowhere close to unleashing hell.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  8. #338
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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    You fight it by starting at the top and make being a leader an automatic death sentence. Don't just take out a couple of top guys, but take out everyone who gives orders to more than a dozen or so people. Put bounties on their heads and let the people they are attacking/oppressing/leading(?) make some bank off this while we're at it. While you're doing that, you aggressively pursue the financiers. Actively and intentionally work towards bankrupting them using any means possible (short of killing/harming innocents - so we're not going to be bombing factories just to cut off the cash flow).
    There are many wealthy financiers in several Gulf States. Apparently, the Islamic State is beneficial to more than just the Islamic State.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  9. #339
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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    You conveniently edited the second quote/link out. The senate intelligence committee found that the Bush administration misrepresented the intelligence!

    mis·rep·re·sent
    ˌmisˌreprəˈzent/
    verb
    past tense: misrepresented; past participle: misrepresented
    give a false or misleading account of the nature of.
    "you are misrepresenting the views of the government"


    And who said it was kept secret? Hans Blix, Joe Wilson, Curvball, the Downing Street memo, and a plethora of evidence has been chronicled. But in the end, fear won. Do we have to wait for the smoking gun to come in the form of a mushroom cloud.
    I did not BTW edit the quote. It did not appear. Did you add it later?

    In any event, misrepresentation of intelligence sounds bad until one understands the nature of intelligence information. The stuff is statistical and very much open to interpretation. But it would be interesting to see the whole paragraph to which you refer in the report.

    The Wikipedia link is interesting in that it confirms finds of WMD including yellow cake and low grade refined Uranium. The reading you might really want to do is the analysis documents discussed in Foreign Affairs. I have posted the link here a few times and am not going to now look it up again. But if you are interested in facts, you should read it.

    As for your witnesses I do not think Blix or Curveball are untainted. Especially seeing that Blix said in an interview that Blaire asked him, if he could guarantee that Iraq had no WMD and he had answered "No". Curveball, of course is another tale for another day.

    Personally I have not received the feeling that you are open to the facts of the run up to the incursion, which is a pity, as it would really be helpful to you to understand what happened and why. But I doubt you will ever, so let us call it a day.

  10. #340
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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    I did not BTW edit the quote. It did not appear. Did you add it later?

    In any event, misrepresentation of intelligence sounds bad until one understands the nature of intelligence information. The stuff is statistical and very much open to interpretation. But it would be interesting to see the whole paragraph to which you refer in the report.

    The Wikipedia link is interesting in that it confirms finds of WMD including yellow cake and low grade refined Uranium. The reading you might really want to do is the analysis documents discussed in Foreign Affairs. I have posted the link here a few times and am not going to now look it up again. But if you are interested in facts, you should read it.

    As for your witnesses I do not think Blix or Curveball are untainted. Especially seeing that Blix said in an interview that Blaire asked him, if he could guarantee that Iraq had no WMD and he had answered "No". Curveball, of course is another tale for another day.

    Personally I have not received the feeling that you are open to the facts of the run up to the incursion, which is a pity, as it would really be helpful to you to understand what happened and why. But I doubt you will ever, so let us call it a day.
    Fair enough, it was added.

    Shocker, Both that Blair would ask somebody to guarantee a negative and that Blix would decline to do so. As Clinton pointed out, the invasion of Iraq was an "error" and the inspection team should have been allowed to finish their job. Of course there wouldn't have been any WMD, certainly no WMD that could produce a mushroom cloud over a US city as BushCo ginned up fear of, and the impetus for the war Bush sought with Saddam Hussein since his days as governor of Texas would have been missed.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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