View Poll Results: What Should We Do To End The Terror War?

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  • The West is doing the right thing.

    6 8.82%
  • We need more WAAAUGH! We need to bomb more! Boots on the ground!

    6 8.82%
  • The West needs to change their foreign policy. Stop meddling in other countries.

    38 55.88%
  • Other

    18 26.47%
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Thread: How Do We End The War on Terror?

  1. #251
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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brich View Post
    Here's my answer:

    Attachment 67173701
    It wouldn't be. Violence begets violence.

  2. #252
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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Bush is the one that said, 'we're addicted to oil', remember?

    US policy was about creating more capitalist countries, in the name of democracy, that would purchase more retail materialism. That's always been their intention, that as long as they could get a bunch of religious fanatics addicted to the comfort of easy living, they would have more control over them. They simply underestimated how much these countries didn't want to accept their puppet regimes and indirect control over them.

    I don't believe there's anything inherently wrong with our lifestyle in the Western world, it works for me. But we can't just force it on everyone else because our politicians say so, and their wealthy elite supporters want it.
    If the war was really about oil, then how about you explain why most of the oil that Iraq exports never goes anywhere near the US? Or keep digging that hole, it's up to you.

    As far as your line about "creating more capitalist countries" and "purchasing more materialism", you sir couldn't be more further from the truth. And from said line, I can also assume that you are below the age 30, and have lived in a Western Country your whole life. The reason I can say this is because if either were not true, you would know that this isn't the first time the US and the West has been the champions of freedom. In fact, the fatal flaw of western foreign policy, is that when we see Arabs on TV, we see in them the same people that marched in the Velvet Revolution that toppled the Communist Party of Czechoslovakia, or the East Berliners that along with their West Berliner counterparts, torn down a wall that was erected to keep it's residents away from a better life. Their fight for freedom had nothing to do with materialism, but with the desire to have a voice in their own government, and to get out of the yoke of Soviet Tyranny. The problem is that Arabs are not like Europeans, in that they haven't done what is necessary for a democracy to work .. and that is Secularize their lifestyle. Europe did it 500 years ago, and is many of the new governments that popped up after the fall of the Soviet Union were successful. They didn't care if you were Protestant or Catholic, only what you could contribute.

    Nelson Mandela said it best: Money won't create success, the freedom to make it will.

  3. #253
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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jango View Post
    Yes, that is what I said. I said that because it is true. Look at what President Bush was saying at the time. His foreign policy choices were guided by religion, like his infamous conversation with the French President or 'God told me to invade Iraq' rationale for War. He made it a crusade, which is what Israel had been wanting for a long time because they were sick and ****ing tired of militant Islam.
    If that was the case, how come we let an Islamist sectarian government come to power? Kind of blows your argument right up doesn't it. It's not like in the original crusades, we'd take over lands just to install Muslim leaders not did we?

  4. #254
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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    If the war was really about oil, then how about you explain why most of the oil that Iraq exports never goes anywhere near the US? Or keep digging that hole, it's up to you.

    As far as your line about "creating more capitalist countries" and "purchasing more materialism", you sir couldn't be more further from the truth. And from said line, I can also assume that you are below the age 30, and have lived in a Western Country your whole life. The reason I can say this is because if either were not true, you would know that this isn't the first time the US and the West has been the champions of freedom. In fact, the fatal flaw of western foreign policy, is that when we see Arabs on TV, we see in them the same people that marched in the Velvet Revolution that toppled the Communist Party of Czechoslovakia, or the East Berliners that along with their West Berliner counterparts, torn down a wall that was erected to keep it's residents away from a better life. Their fight for freedom had nothing to do with materialism, but with the desire to have a voice in their own government, and to get out of the yoke of Soviet Tyranny. The problem is that Arabs are not like Europeans, in that they haven't done what is necessary for a democracy to work .. and that is Secularize their lifestyle. Europe did it 500 years ago, and is many of the new governments that popped up after the fall of the Soviet Union were successful. They didn't care if you were Protestant or Catholic, only what you could contribute.

    Nelson Mandela said it best: Money won't create success, the freedom to make it will.
    If you think the world operates on idealism and not money, then you're not paying attention to the truth. Idealism is merely a means to an end. My age and residence are not relevant to the discussion. But freedom as you call it, is another illusion that is really the basic needs of life being supplied by an economic civilization. You need a job to pay for your food, water, home, gas, medicine, electricity etc. and they're all provided by the same corporate structures that influence politics and governments.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  5. #255
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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    Its been 13 years since 9/11 and yet it seems there are now more terrorists than ever before. Can this war be won? What are your thoughts on this? Are the governments of the West doing the right things or are they making the situation worse?

    As for me, I dont want to see another American solider or civilian killed in a pointless war with no end. The West needs to stop minding the business of other countries. No more overseas military bases or occupation- if these Islamists want to live according to their religion then I say let them do it. These very governments like Saudi Arabia, who we are fighting with to maintain their status quo over there are the very people who bankroll these terrorists. The US has got the largest shale oil deposits in the world- more than the entire middle east combined, why not spend billions in developing these fields and get oil form then instead of letting the Arabs do it and paying them for it?
    The US has about 40 billion barrels of oil in the ground, and we consume about 6 billion per year. To say that we can ever be independent from foreign oil is a fantasy, sorry to report.

  6. #256
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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    The US has about 40 billion barrels of oil in the ground, and we consume about 6 billion per year. To say that we can ever be independent from foreign oil is a fantasy, sorry to report.
    I think we can if we had the political will to do it. Our shale oil reserves is larger than all the middle east combined.

    BOOM: US shale surge sinks demand for Saudi petrol ? RT Business

  7. #257
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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I think my philosophy re how to deal with terrorism would eventually discourage and discredit the terrorists to the point that they could not so easily recruit new terrorists. Render the evil impotent to work their evil--take away their success--and most rational people will choose some other line of work. So the civilian population would be less likely to become enemy combatents. I cannot morally embrace a concept that suggests we kill people because they MIGHT choose to do evil at some later time. I have no problem with killing those who do evil and intend to do more.

    But I did take note of Eric Holder's pronouncement that religious profiling would not be tolerated in our defense against terrorism.

    When Nidal Hasan, who had been taking Islamic training from Anwar al-Awlaki, picked up a handgun and murdered 12 soldiers (one pregnant) and injured 29 others, the Obama administration labeled the incident 'workplace violence.' When Alton Nolan attacked and beheaded a woman and was in the process of killing another--the incident closely following the gruesome ISIS beheadings in the international news--and it was revealed that he had recently converted to Islam, the Obama Administration is labeling the incident as 'workplace violence.' Give me a break. Given that 90 percent or better of terrorist activity around the world is being committed by Islamic extremists or opportunists, to not consider that in the equation is just dumb.

    Until we can set aside the politically correct garbage that has made us into a society of timid sheeple and start calling the evil for what it is, we have little or no chance to effectively deal with the problem. There is certainly no reluctance to call Christian activism for what it is, and to graphically point out a Christian's faith when he or she commits a crime. And when that is done there is no concern whatsoever about offending peaceful Christians. Why are we so timid and afraid that we might offend a peaceful Muslim? If it is somehow dangerous to offend a peaceful Muslim while it is not dangerous to offend a peaceful Christian, shouldn't Islam be considered more dangerous than Christianity?

    And if the consequences of offending are not greater in the Islamic world, then why should Islam get greater deference and protection than Christianity.

    And I say this having Muslim friends, neighbors, and colleagues who I feel absolutely no threat from, who are delightful people, and I love them dearly. So I am NOT saying that all Muslims are evil or dangerous or anything like that. But the fact is that it is Islam involved in most terrorism these days and it is just dumb not to recognize that and factor it into our efforts to stop terrorism.
    Nicely said.

    Well, as you may know I am not religious. To me religion is rogue politics that has bused its power and recruited people as soldiers more than in one occasion.

    My point is that if one relies only in force then there may be greater casualties which in turn may increase recruitment. Instead dealing with terror only with force tackling the problem by providing education and jobs seems to be an equally important anti-terror influence.

    At least the killed terrorist by force would then be involved in such activity not due to desperation and financial challenges. The links posted in post 2 work towards those goals I think.
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
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  8. #258
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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    That first link is a joke, who exactly is zero hedge? And are you really going to side with what may be a bunch of college guys in a dorm smoking or snorting it up while they're writing these articles?



    Can't you find any legit news articles to back you up? Despite this, I don't disagree we were looking someone who would follow our demands, it all depends on what the demands are. As you should know, our whole objective in Iraq was to get a stable government that represented everyone. But you're right, unlike some countries I could mention, we get sort of uncomfortable when backing up ruthless tyrants... hey isn't Russia backing Assad? Again, a puppet government isn't one that isn't merely someone who is supported/backed by another country, but one who acts in the best interest in not their own government, but of their puppeteers. See the Warsaw Pact countries, specifically I'd recommend you starting with Ukraine during the Soviet Union.



    Oh goodie, another Anti-US website. At least this one has the credibility of being a think tank. Let me offer a little advice when you are sourcing things; look for outlets and organizations that either have opposing viewpoints to the one you have one and ones the other side might normally agree with (Jon Stewart when he went after Sibelius). Or if that fails, at least reference a news source with a some international recognition. Not these trailer trash websites you offered.

    By the way, you know what really started this whole "propping up of leaders" in the Middle East. Could it be the Soviet Union had a hand in some of those governments back in the day? Oh how quickly we brush the cold war under the rug when it muddies our arguments...

    I'll put it to you another way... would you call the old West Germany a puppet state? Of course not, they were a free and independent country. They are no more the puppet than Merkel and Germany's current government is. The only reason the US had ties with it is because the same couldn't be said of East Germany. That my friend, is what a puppet looks like.
    Oh ok, so if it's critical of the US, it's anti-American. Label it such and your done.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  9. #259
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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    If the war was really about oil, then how about you explain why most of the oil that Iraq exports never goes anywhere near the US? Or keep digging that hole, it's up to you.

    As far as your line about "creating more capitalist countries" and "purchasing more materialism", you sir couldn't be more further from the truth. And from said line, I can also assume that you are below the age 30, and have lived in a Western Country your whole life. The reason I can say this is because if either were not true, you would know that this isn't the first time the US and the West has been the champions of freedom. In fact, the fatal flaw of western foreign policy, is that when we see Arabs on TV, we see in them the same people that marched in the Velvet Revolution that toppled the Communist Party of Czechoslovakia, or the East Berliners that along with their West Berliner counterparts, torn down a wall that was erected to keep it's residents away from a better life. Their fight for freedom had nothing to do with materialism, but with the desire to have a voice in their own government, and to get out of the yoke of Soviet Tyranny. The problem is that Arabs are not like Europeans, in that they haven't done what is necessary for a democracy to work .. and that is Secularize their lifestyle. Europe did it 500 years ago, and is many of the new governments that popped up after the fall of the Soviet Union were successful. They didn't care if you were Protestant or Catholic, only what you could contribute.

    Nelson Mandela said it best: Money won't create success, the freedom to make it will.
    Yes, all our involvement in the ME revolves around securing the free flow of oil, whatever it's destination. Something like 35% of all oil flows through the SOH, and we have plenty of bases to protect that straight, and keep Iran (or anyone else for that matter) from blocking it. And that oil that flows out of there is destined for ports around the world! US officials have been candid about the reason were fighting in the ME.In fact, Chuck Hagel was a tad condescending toward people who have yet to figure that out.

    People say we're not fighting for oil. Of course we are. They talk about America's national interest. What the hell do you think they're talking about? We're not there for figs.

    Chuck Hagel

    Six Years Ago, Chuck Hagel Told the Truth About Iraq*|*Michael Moore

    Allen Greenspan, pointed out the obvious as well, acknowledging that everybody already knows that we are in the ME for oil.


    In his long-awaited memoir - out tomorrow in the US - Greenspan, 81, who served as chairman of the US Federal Reserve for almost two decades, writes: 'I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil.'

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/200...q.iraqtimeline


    (CNN) -- Yes, the Iraq War was a war for oil, and it was a war with winners: Big Oil.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2013/03/19/op...ar-oil-juhasz/
    Last edited by Montecresto; 10-01-14 at 10:40 AM.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  10. #260
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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Oh ok, so if it's critical of the US, it's anti-American. Label it such and your done.
    Be honest with me Monte, you think if I did a poll on this website of either of the Zero Hedge website or what wsw one, people would know what it is?

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