View Poll Results: What Should We Do To End The Terror War?

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  • The West is doing the right thing.

    6 8.82%
  • We need more WAAAUGH! We need to bomb more! Boots on the ground!

    6 8.82%
  • The West needs to change their foreign policy. Stop meddling in other countries.

    38 55.88%
  • Other

    18 26.47%
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Thread: How Do We End The War on Terror?

  1. #241
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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Yeah, sure. It has nothing to do with a dictator that committed genocide twice, invaded neighbors twice, institutionalized rape, intentionally starved hundreds of thousands, violated 17 unscrs and had a fake WMD program.

    Yeah, those were not problems and they didn't contribute to the mess today.
    While I must admit there were atrocious human rights violations by the Hussein regime, that doe not change the fact that Hussein was able to stifle terrorism almost fully in the area.
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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Of course I acknowledge Obama's hand in the Middle East woes. He's done at least as much damage as George Bush. And I agree with you that Bush did as much damage as he could. And attacking Iraq, which had no connection to OBL or Al Qaeda, was impotent to deliver a mushroom cloud over a US city, and removing Saddam Hussein who was quite effective in containment of terrorist groups within his borders is the catalyst to the trouble we have today. Then, installing a puppet government that didn't provide equal Shia/Sunni access/leadership and failing in six years time to properly train a military that could defend their borders is just a huge smear on his legacy.
    Sadly, this was no puppet government, this is what the Iraqi people wanted. If it was simply a "puppet", Maliki would of been gone a long time ago... same with Karzi. Ultimately, I find the fault of Iraq's current ails to be less so on either the Bush or Obama administration (although cases can be made they either made things worse or originally initiated the problem). Bottom line, When Bush left office in 2008 (and to a lesser extent but still so when Obama withdrew the troops) the country was whole and violence was down to a minimum.

    We're not Russia who go around pushing phony elections for regimes that we back. Hell, Iran is a bigger ally to Iraq than we are this point.

    Also, had ISIS of gone through Shia lands instead of Sunni, you would of seen a far more capable Iraqi Army. The truth is, Maliki didn't care if the Sunnis territory fell, as long as the Shia (and the oil) was safe. There's a reason why ISIS hasn't been able to push further into Iraq...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jango View Post
    The title of War on Terrorism is a misnomer, it is nothing more than a modern day crusade. I do not see a foreseeable end to this religious War.
    Modern Day Crusade? That seems to imply that we give a **** if their Christian or not, which isn't the case. Keep in mind, only one side is making this a ware about religion. Besides, Islam is at war with just about every country on the planet, so that pretty much blows that argument up.

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Yeah, sure. It has nothing to do with a dictator that committed genocide twice, invaded neighbors twice, institutionalized rape, intentionally starved hundreds of thousands, violated 17 unscrs and had a fake WMD program.

    Yeah, those were not problems and they didn't contribute to the mess today.
    Like it or not, he did keep Sunnis in check, and had an army that would defend it's land unlike the current regime. Face is, if Saddam was in power, we have an issue with ISIS. Yes he was a very bad guy, but he was a bad guy that could be contained and was. You telling me that knowing what you do now (specifically about the fake WMD program) that you'd support the war again? Who's to say if Assad was removed, we wouldn't end up in the same situation as we are in Iraq. Hell even Egypt elected the MB when given the chance...
    Last edited by Hamster Buddha; 10-01-14 at 02:57 AM.

  3. #243
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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Sadly, this was no puppet government, this is what the Iraqi people wanted. If it was simply a "puppet", Maliki would of been gone a long time ago... same with Karzi. Ultimately, I find the fault of Iraq's current ails to be less so on either the Bush or Obama administration (although cases can be made they either made things worse or originally initiated the problem). Bottom line, When Bush left office in 2008 (and to a lesser extent but still so when Obama withdrew the troops) the country was whole and violence was down to a minimum.

    We're not Russia who go around pushing phony elections for regimes that we back. Hell, Iran is a bigger ally to Iraq than we are this point.
    US Slams Its Former Iraq Puppet: "The Maliki Government, Candidly, Has Got To Go"

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...dly-has-got-go

    A factor in the US endorsement for Maliki is undoubtedly his role on the constitutional committee. He is a man they know will adapt himself to American demands.

    http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2006/04/iraq-a26.html

    Indeed, Maliki is not the first, nor is he likely to be the last, leader propped up, armed, and supported politically and militarily by the US, only to then become the proverbial “greatest threat to peace and stability in the region.”

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-str...ate-is/5389805
    Last edited by Montecresto; 10-01-14 at 03:09 AM.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    US Slams Its Former Iraq Puppet: "The Maliki Government, Candidly, Has Got To Go"
    Was that suppose to be a news article? Because you saying it doesn't make it true. Unless you are trying to imply that the fact that we said "Maliki Government... has... to go" is some acknowledgment, Keep in mind we made the same proclamation to Syria, and I doubt you'd try to push that label on him.

    Look if you don't know what a puppet is, just go look at the Old Soviet Union Warsaw Pact Countries, or Afghanistan during and before their conflict with the Soviets. Those are puppets who march lockstep in line with their masters in Moscow. The US does do that (anymore at least) as it is (the position of the US Government, not mine at this point) the policy to support the will of the people, no matter how they vote... (Until things get hairy anyways).

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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Was that suppose to be a news article? Because you saying it doesn't make it true. Unless you are trying to imply that the fact that we said "Maliki Government... has... to go" is some acknowledgment, Keep in mind we made the same proclamation to Syria, and I doubt you'd try to push that label on him.

    Look if you don't know what a puppet is, just go look at the Old Soviet Union Warsaw Pact Countries, or Afghanistan during and before their conflict with the Soviets. Those are puppets who march lockstep in line with their masters in Moscow. The US does do that (anymore at least) as it is (the position of the US Government, not mine at this point) the policy to support the will of the people, no matter how they vote... (Until things get hairy anyways).
    Check my post again!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  6. #246
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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    You can't end a War on an idea like Terror, because it's not winnable. There's not a tangible enemy to defeat, per se, with an indigenous people, who occupy a region of religious zealotism. We had a bunch of strong arm dictators in place, with our support, who were keeping their countries inline as a whole, except for Afghanistan, which had some terrorists bases for the original AQ. Now, we've supported the overthrow of most the regions leaders, destabilized the whole ME, spent trillions of dollars and lost lives over a misguided concept of controlling sectarianism and oil resources.

    All we had to do, was put pressure on the Saudi's to clean up the mess they helped create, and tapped down the AQ in Afghanistan. But we couldn't stop there and do that because of our arrogance and thirst for revenge.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  7. #247
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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    US Slams Its Former Iraq Puppet: "The Maliki Government, Candidly, Has Got To Go"

    US Slams Its Former Iraq Puppet: "The Maliki Government, Candidly, Has Got To Go" | Zero Hedge
    That first link is a joke, who exactly is zero hedge? And are you really going to side with what may be a bunch of college guys in a dorm smoking or snorting it up while they're writing these articles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    A factor in the US endorsement for Maliki is undoubtedly his role on the constitutional committee. He is a man they know will adapt himself to American demands.

    Behind the installation of Jawad al-Maliki as Iraqi prime minister - World Socialist Web Site
    Can't you find any legit news articles to back you up? Despite this, I don't disagree we were looking someone who would follow our demands, it all depends on what the demands are. As you should know, our whole objective in Iraq was to get a stable government that represented everyone. But you're right, unlike some countries I could mention, we get sort of uncomfortable when backing up ruthless tyrants... hey isn't Russia backing Assad? Again, a puppet government isn't one that isn't merely someone who is supported/backed by another country, but one who acts in the best interest in not their own government, but of their puppeteers. See the Warsaw Pact countries, specifically I'd recommend you starting with Ukraine during the Soviet Union.

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Indeed, Maliki is not the first, nor is he likely to be the last, leader propped up, armed, and supported politically and militarily by the US, only to then become the proverbial “greatest threat to peace and stability in the region.”

    The Strange Case of Iraq’s Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki against the Backdrop of the “War” against the Islamic State (IS) | Global Research
    Oh goodie, another Anti-US website. At least this one has the credibility of being a think tank. Let me offer a little advice when you are sourcing things; look for outlets and organizations that either have opposing viewpoints to the one you have one and ones the other side might normally agree with (Jon Stewart when he went after Sibelius). Or if that fails, at least reference a news source with a some international recognition. Not these trailer trash websites you offered.

    By the way, you know what really started this whole "propping up of leaders" in the Middle East. Could it be the Soviet Union had a hand in some of those governments back in the day? Oh how quickly we brush the cold war under the rug when it muddies our arguments...

    I'll put it to you another way... would you call the old West Germany a puppet state? Of course not, they were a free and independent country. They are no more the puppet than Merkel and Germany's current government is. The only reason the US had ties with it is because the same couldn't be said of East Germany. That my friend, is what a puppet looks like.

  8. #248
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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    You can't end a War on an idea like Terror, because it's not winnable. There's not a tangible enemy to defeat, per se, with an indigenous people, who occupy a region of religious zealotism. We had a bunch of strong arm dictators in place, with our support, who were keeping their countries inline as a whole, except for Afghanistan, which had some terrorists bases for the original AQ. Now, we've supported the overthrow of most the regions leaders, destabilized the whole ME, spent trillions of dollars and lost lives over a misguided concept of controlling sectarianism and oil resources.

    All we had to do, was put pressure on the Saudi's to clean up the mess they helped create, and tapped down the AQ in Afghanistan. But we couldn't stop there and do that because of our arrogance and thirst for revenge.
    Oh god will you stop with the Oil. Have you ever stopped to look just where Iraq's oil goes? I'm going to take that as no, as if you did, you would clearly realize how ludicrous that statement was.

    You wanna know what US policy has been about for the last decade and a half. It was a noble (yet naive) idea that if the world was more free, if the people had a say in their government, then the world would be a better place. Of course, we gave them freedom and in almost every instance (Tunisia being the lone exception), the governments always turn sectarian, or are handed over to radicals and terrorist. It's apparent now that Arab society is far inferior to western society, which is why I don't support removing Assad at this time. However, one cannot say that US Foreign Policy wasn't done with good intentions in mind. I just wish that someone would of reminded the people coming up with this policy of just where good intentions will lead.

  9. #249
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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Oh god will you stop with the Oil. Have you ever stopped to look just where Iraq's oil goes? I'm going to take that as no, as if you did, you would clearly realize how ludicrous that statement was.

    You wanna know what US policy has been about for the last decade and a half. It was a noble (yet naive) idea that if the world was more free, if the people had a say in their government, then the world would be a better place. Of course, we gave them freedom and in almost every instance (Tunisia being the lone exception), the governments always turn sectarian, or are handed over to radicals and terrorist. It's apparent now that Arab society is far inferior to western society, which is why I don't support removing Assad at this time. However, one cannot say that US Foreign Policy wasn't done with good intentions in mind. I just wish that someone would of reminded the people coming up with this policy of just where good intentions will lead.
    Bush is the one that said, 'we're addicted to oil', remember?

    US policy was about creating more capitalist countries, in the name of democracy, that would purchase more retail materialism. That's always been their intention, that as long as they could get a bunch of religious fanatics addicted to the comfort of easy living, they would have more control over them. They simply underestimated how much these countries didn't want to accept their puppet regimes and indirect control over them.

    I don't believe there's anything inherently wrong with our lifestyle in the Western world, it works for me. But we can't just force it on everyone else because our politicians say so, and their wealthy elite supporters want it.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  10. #250
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    Re: How Do We End The War on Terror?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Modern Day Crusade?
    Yes, that is what I said. I said that because it is true. Look at what President Bush was saying at the time. His foreign policy choices were guided by religion, like his infamous conversation with the French President or 'God told me to invade Iraq' rationale for War. He made it a crusade, which is what Israel had been wanting for a long time because they were sick and ****ing tired of militant Islam.

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