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Income Inequality

What should be done to battle income inequality in the USA?

  • Do not intervene

    Votes: 39 53.4%

  • Yes, do intervene

    Votes: 34 46.6%
  • Total voters
    73
Peter Grimm said:
I actually don't have a problem with our monetary policy, I think the Fed does a good job given the current economic climate and that the current money supply/interest rates are appropriate.

I do think we need better fiscal policy - politicians need to do a better job of balancing the budget for the overall health of our economy.

But I think what's most sorely lacking is some kind of a plan, politically. Whether that's taking another look at our banking laws, re-examining our trade policies with China, or investing in ways that we can manufacture goods more efficiently here at home (robotics, for example), I don't see any real leadership from Washington on these matters.... and that concerns me.
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It's not so much a problem relating to balancing the budget as it is making sure what is spent is spent in a productive manner...
 
Peter Grimm said:
It's indisputable fact that income inequality in the United States has grown substantially in the past few decades.

Median nominal incomes, adjusted for inflation, have not gone up in the USA since the 50's. (Median is the halfway point, so we are talking about the middle-earner). In contrast, the per capita GDP has risen quite dramatically, due to the increased purchasing power of the upper echelon.


I pose three questions to you:

1.) What has caused this phenomenon
2.) What are the long term implications if the trend is allowed to continue
3.) What, if anything, should be done to adjust our course


Thanks
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I'm deeply concerned with unemployment, wage stagnation, and the relative purchasing power and comfort of the middle and working classes. But not with income inequality itself.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Raise the cap on Social Security,
Encourage unionization of workers.
Get rid of minimum wage and welfare benefits. Substitute the government as the employer of last resort.
Quit just playing lip service to ending illegal immigration,
Get the cost of health insurance off of the backs of the employers.
Treat all income as equal for tax purposes. No special rates for capital gains.
Don't bail out entities "too big to fail" then let them pay their chiefs multi billion dollar "bonuses."

That would be a good start.
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-Invest in worker re-education
-Invest in technologies that could make us more price-competitive on the manufacturing front.... like robotics
-Regulate consumer lending policies more carefully
-Close tax loopholes for companies moving overseas
-Work with international banking establishments to put pressure on China to end it's currency manipulation
 
lizzie said:
It isn't Walmart. Go find me some AMerican made products to buy ANYWHERE. It's not easy to do. The finest clothing stores are selling Chinese crap.
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Greetings, lizzie. :2wave:

Good point, lizzie! :thumbs: The only way to make sure clothing is made in America today is if you know someone who sews, and is willing to make clothing for you. From the books I've read, during the Great Depression, every homemaker knew how to sew, and made everything from underwear to everyday clothes for children to their husband's work shirts and pants. You can believe that what was produced was far better made than some of the stuff for sale today, too, because it had to be made to last, since there just wasn't enough money for "one-time" wearing of anything. Do schools today still teach girls to sew, or did that go the way of learning how to preserve foods by canning or drying for future meals? Most Americans aren't lazy...it's just easier to buy even crappy stuff than do it yourself, since many women have jobs outside the home today, and just don't have time.
 
AlabamaPaul said:
It's not so much a problem relating to balancing the budget as it is making sure what is spent is spent in a productive manner...
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There is quite a bit of truth to that. The US government borrows at such a favorable rate that, as long as said project pays for itself in the long run, it's probably a good thing.

You're right about that.

Still need to show enough fiscal responsibility, though, so that confidence in the dollar remains strong. I think we're too close to the edge there, so someone needs to go through our government programs with a fine tooth comb and cut the ones that aren't producing.
 
Peter Grimm said:
It's indisputable fact that income inequality in the United States has grown substantially in the past few decades.
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I don't dispute the facts showing the broadening gap, but I do dispute the term, since it implies that the opposite would be equality of all incomes - that I do not agree with.

Peter Grimm said:
1.) What has caused this phenomenon
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A number of factors. Most have to do with the burgeoning technology companies and investments in them, and the rise of wealth through other investments. Another factor is the well meaning but adverse consequence laws and regulations that were put in place in the 1990's, that allowed banks to act as investment firms and insurance companies - blowing their wealth sky high and creating paper wealth that is not covered by collateral or at least not by collateral that is worth the debt against it (housing bubble, bank failures, insurance scams, sub-prime loans, etc., etc.). This has produced a lot of wealth that is based on paper shuffling and not assets, which can and has inflated personal wealth of a large number of those able to participate.
Peter Grimm said:
2.) What are the long term implications if the trend is allowed to continue
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Another banking failure, another housing bubble (except in other areas such as businesses that have been over valued in the stock market). Which, will effect those at the bottom with inflation of prices of those items that they need to just live.
Peter Grimm said:
3.) What, if anything, should be done to adjust our course
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It would be hard to change directions at this point without shaking the economy's foundation, although that is what needs to happen. It can be done slowly by reinstating the Glass-Steagall Act, repealing the CRA, and Dodd-Frank (which is why poor folks are paying so much just to have a bank account now). This would force the economy to invest in real things... like people (you know, good paying jobs) and business expansion rather than keeping capital close at hand in preparation of the inevitable next crash.
 
polgara said:
Greetings, lizzie. :2wave:

Good point, lizzie! :thumbs: The only way to make sure clothing is made in America today is if you know someone who sews, and is willing to make clothing for you. From the books I've read, during the Great Depression, every homemaker knew how to sew, and made everything from underwear to everyday clothes for children to their husband's work shirts and pants. You can believe that what was produced was far better made than some of the stuff for sale today, too, because it had to be made to last, since there just wasn't enough money for "one-time" wearing of anything. Do schools today still teach girls to sew, or did that go the way of learning how to preserve foods by canning or drying for future meals? Most Americans aren't lazy...it's just easier to buy even crappy stuff than do it yourself, since many women have jobs outside the home today, and just don't have time.
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Well, and it's gotten so expensive to make it yourself- I can't imagine how much it would be to hire someone to sew my clothes. I grew up sewing. WHen I was a kid, you could buy cloth for 25 cents to a couple of dollars per yard. Now, it's probably $6 per yard at the very least, for the really cheap stuff. Buy pattern, thread, cloth, and add in your labor time, and you could easily pay 30-50 dollars for something which you can buy at a discount store for 10 dollars or less.
 
lizzie said:
Nothing should be done, that isn't already being done. Income equality is a reality, because people aren't all equal in intelligence, drive, ingenuity, and just plain old luck. I strongly support reward for efforts, education, and industriousness, and I strongly dislike paying people for doing nothing.
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So you are saying to me, that Paris Hilton is more intelligent and so on than most people in the US?
 
Get rid of the legal term and entity known as corporation. Make all companies equal, completely equal. This will increase competition. More small business owners = higher employment = more competition for employees = higher command for wages. Plus the business owners themselves will take more and more of the pie away from the mega corps who currently run this country. Less profit for them = fewer multi million dollar salaried CEOs. Bring them down a peg, raise up a few more small business owners a peg, and get more people into the middle.

We can talk about tax schemes, minimum wage hikes, reducing the 40 hour work week (an inevitability, IMO), etc, but none of that means a hill of beans so long as the majority of profit is made by a minority of huge companies and their millions of subsidiaries.

Anti trust has failed...it's not to be trusted. Kill the corporation, revive the small business.
 
Peter Grimm said:
-Invest in worker re-education
-Invest in technologies that could make us more price-competitive on the manufacturing front.... like robotics
-Regulate consumer lending policies more carefully
-Close tax loopholes for companies moving overseas
-Work with international banking establishments to put pressure on China to end it's currency manipulation
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Yes, that too.

Perhaps if we had a functioning Congress, some of the above could actually be accomplished.
 
Of course we should intervene.

If things continue at the current rate... Americans will never be affected by global warming and terrorism will not seem so important anymore.

Somewhere between the "now" and the period in which the 1% own 99%, and the 99% are all starving... America will tear itself apart.
We will plunge ourselves into something much worse than a 3rd world Country. Bands of murderous fanatical militias, and cities at war with one another will make the fictional "Mad Max" scenario look like a utopia in comparison.
 
I don't understand the extremes of unregulated corporate capitalism and complete equal pay. Neither is realistic or healthy in the long run. Something that could encourage mega corporations to look beyond pure profit and see the human value, and people not trying to milk the system for a free ride, seems more appropriate?
 
lizzie said:
Nothing should be done, that isn't already being done. Income equality is a reality, because people aren't all equal in intelligence, drive, ingenuity, and just plain old luck. I strongly support reward for efforts, education, and industriousness, and I strongly dislike paying people for doing nothing.
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I agree with the premise that people are not equal and not everybody is capable of being a doctor, lawyer, CEO, etc. But that is shortsighted and looks past the fact that much of our economic conversations in America revolve around thinking the rich need the largest tax breaks (so they can donate and contribute to help the poor as a choice), companies and not individuals deserve more tax breaks (some people believe corporate tax breaks lowers prices), and corporations should be able to buy elections and lobby politicians (corporations are people and money is speech - Citizens United).

I don't accept that there is some universal truth that everybody is paid what they deserve... that's hilarious. I have seen plenty of lazy, overpaid managers in charge of much less paid employees who are always busting their ass, working hard, never late, always willing to do extra, etc. I know many people who work where favoritism and politics supersedes hard work. But that is a micro economic issue compared to the fact that corporations themselves are people, with rights, and more power and money than you and I, and therefore, they have more influence than you and I over our government.

The gap between rich and poor keeps growing, and it's not because Americans are becoming less equal, less intelligent, or less driven as a whole. The gap continues to grow, despite the fact that the wealthiest companies in the world contributed to a massive global meltdown, and CEOs were being paid historically more than ever right before the collapse. And now, CEOs are being paid more than ever. Yet, most people would argue that CEOs who destroy the world economy aren't good CEOs, right?

This is a huge problem, and it's legitimate concentration of power and government influence where they lobby, contribute billions to campaigns, influence policy writing, and keep stacking the Federal Reserve with guys like Greenspan and Bernake who will always bailed them out.

I am not anti corporations. I am a CPA with a education in business and economics, and I constantly read books on economics and the financial meltdown. I haven't read one book by an economist who is excited about the economic policies since or before the meltdown. Also, there are a lot of falsehoods in the average citizens understanding of economics in the country as well. It's all very problematic.
 
It's nothing the government has any business interfering in.

Moreover, it's no cause for concern whatsoever.
 
I voted do intervene but that is with a careful consideration of how to intervene. I am not an economist so I wouldnt even suggest how. Vaguely I do think it should center around encouraging the people making less money to advance themselves then vilanizing the rich.
 
Peter Grimm said:
It's indisputable fact that income inequality in the United States has grown substantially in the past few decades.

Median nominal incomes, adjusted for inflation, have not gone up in the USA since the 50's. (Median is the halfway point, so we are talking about the middle-earner). In contrast, the per capita GDP has risen quite dramatically, due to the increased purchasing power of the upper echelon.


I pose three questions to you:

1.) What has caused this phenomenon
2.) What are the long term implications if the trend is allowed to continue
3.) What, if anything, should be done to adjust our course


Thanks
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1. The founding fathers founded America in order to keep the rich rich and the rest subservient. (as Howard Zinn documented quite well) over time the rich realized they had to split the masses and allow some to ascend to levels of extreme wealth and opulence in order to preserve the illusion that he country was fair an equal. Obviously they also had to give up the most racist and mysogenistic policy's as well. It has only gotten worse over time, and has gotten especially bad in the last century.

2. More poverty for poor, more wealth for rich. The gap will grow until their is a shift in American consciousness, or someone overthrows the government.

3. Direct democracy, and a social safety net that no one can go below. (Let ppl vote on laws, representation is a joke, and pass the economic bill of rights as part of the constitution. Make them both impossible to repeal.)
 
PeteEU said:
So you are saying to me, that Paris Hilton is more intelligent and so on than most people in the US?
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No, but her father and grandfather certainly were.
 
Cephus said:
No, but her father and grandfather certainly were.
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Grandfather sure father not so much... Anyone can inherit, run, and grow a successful buisness. It does not take above average intelligence. I would say she is a moron, her father is average, and her GPA was very smart.
 
PeteEU said:
So you are saying to me, that Paris Hilton is more intelligent and so on than most people in the US?
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maybe luckier

born with a platinum spoon per se

i dont have an issue with rich people giving money to their kids.....

a lot of them do good with it

a few squander it away

it takes generations in most cases to truly build wealth.....

i say a flat 25% tax on anything over 50 million......

anything under that is gratis to the family
 
KevinKohler said:
Get rid of the legal term and entity known as corporation. Make all companies equal, completely equal. This will increase competition. More small business owners = higher employment = more competition for employees = higher command for wages. Plus the business owners themselves will take more and more of the pie away from the mega corps who currently run this country. Less profit for them = fewer multi million dollar salaried CEOs. Bring them down a peg, raise up a few more small business owners a peg, and get more people into the middle.

We can talk about tax schemes, minimum wage hikes, reducing the 40 hour work week (an inevitability, IMO), etc, but none of that means a hill of beans so long as the majority of profit is made by a minority of huge companies and their millions of subsidiaries.

Anti trust has failed...it's not to be trusted. Kill the corporation, revive the small business.
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what is unequal about chapter c corporations?

and you want to force all companies into what?

c corps
llc's
s corps
partnerships

what exactly is your idea here
 
Peter Grimm said:
It's indisputable fact that income inequality in the United States has grown substantially in the past few decades.

Median nominal incomes, adjusted for inflation, have not gone up in the USA since the 50's. (Median is the halfway point, so we are talking about the middle-earner). In contrast, the per capita GDP has risen quite dramatically, due to the increased purchasing power of the upper echelon.


I pose three questions to you:

1.) What has caused this phenomenon
2.) What are the long term implications if the trend is allowed to continue
3.) What, if anything, should be done to adjust our course


Thanks
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1. Free will
2. no idea
3. reforms which reduce govt involvement in the economy, allowing the free market to follow a natural course
 
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