View Poll Results: What should be done to battle income inequality in the USA?

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  • Do not intervene

    47 51.09%
  • Yes, do intervene

    45 48.91%
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Thread: Income Inequality

  1. #941
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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by tuhaybey View Post
    Anyways, do you have some kind of argument for why we shouldn't try to fix the problem with people being paid less than they're worth? Or what? It seems like you're just interested in some sort of weird allocation of blame thing or something, but I don't see why whatever all that is about would mean we shouldn't fix the economic issue, would it?
    What Problem, market forces determine the value of a working hour or on a piece basis per the job description. In a growing economy, businesses are expanding and jobs are on the rise thus wages are on the rise as there are fewer people to fill those jobs. Simple concept that needs no meddling, in fact on the other side there are those that complain that some make too much money. Of course in a liberals mind they want to demonize the rich and reward the unsuccessful. Meaning you make to much money and you should make more, it's called redistribution of wealth. If we don't have to much of that already.
    Liberals - Punish the Successful, Reward the Unsuccessful
    Liberals - Tax, Borrow, Spend, and Give Free Stuff
    Obama's legacy - President Donald Trump

  2. #942
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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    On what do you base this conclusion?
    That was what the rest of my post explained, no? Or am I misunderstanding your question?

  3. #943
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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    What Problem, market forces determine the value of a working hour or on a piece basis per the job description.
    No, you're missing what I'm saying. Market forces are supposed to determine wages. Wages are supposed to automatically follow productivity. But they aren't. Wages are basically staying static while productivity shoots up. That isn't supposed to be possible in a capitalist economy if things work like the models, but it is happening and has been for like 30 years now. What I want is to figure out why it isn't working any more and figure out how we can get back to having the market determine wages again because that would mean a radical increase in everybody's wages.

  4. #944
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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    I can tell you've never owned a business or managed one. The optimal price is what the market will bare that brings in the most profit. That is what sets the price point. When demand is high the business will raise it's price to maximize profit. If I sold one widget for a million dollars but if I drop my price to 900,000 and sell ten of them and my cost is 750,000 what price am I going to put on that widget.

    I quote you as saying "The profits an owner takes are waste? To you, but not an owner of a company. Then you go onto say "They are created by charging customers more than the things you sell them are worth" Sorry but that is how you make a profit and the more profit a company makes the more expansion the company can make and the owners can by more yachts and planes and more toys. Then you say "paying employees less than they are worth." Sorry they are worth what the market dictates. Then you say "It's a business failing to perform well." You are wrong again, the higher the profit the more successful it is. I am going to use one example of high profit - Microsoft. And you say Microsoft, as a business, is failing to perform well. What planet are you on.
    You just don't seem to be familiar with economics. You're missing many of the most basic concepts of capitalism completely. I explained it the best I can and that didn't seem to help, so I don't know what else I can do. Maybe you ought to just take an evening class or something?

  5. #945
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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Is the work worth the productivity, if there is too much labor and capital is in short supply? That is, what is causing the present unhappiness.
    Oh, no, quite the opposite. We are drowning in capital. That's why we keep having bubbles- the rich are so overstuffed with money that they need to invest somewhere that every crackpot half baked startup out there gets tens of millions of dollars. What we're starving for at present is revenues. We have plenty of capital, plenty of labor, but not enough customers. The reason for that is because the middle class drives revenues and the middle class is being screwed out of its share of the growth.

  6. #946
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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    They are entitled to make as much as they can. Or is there some law that limits what a person can make in a lifetime? Where does earning power merge with legal embezzlement, it never does. There is no such thing as legal embezzlement, only in the eyes of someone like you that demonize those that have wealth. The only problem is you wishing you were the one with the wealth. Being you don't have it you demonize those that do and call them embezzlers.
    The question is not people making what they can, but under what circumstances this is best for society at large. Some people "can" make obscene amounts of money, given their leverage. Vladimir Putin, for example, has no doubt made large amounts of money, because he can, in his capitalist system, but that doesn't mean that is best for Russian society. The Walton family has made massive amounts of money, but any reasonable sociological or economic analysis of their efforts is going to produce, at best, pretty mixed reviews of what this has done to American society. People can make what they want, but it must come under the scrutiny of the people, or else you have a corporate anarchy, only steps away from places like Somalia. The right wing in American politics wants to insist (urged on by the desires of the one percent) on a child-like view of the world, in which all good boys deserve favours, and only the best win out in the end, for purely their own ends, not for yours.

  7. #947
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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by tuhaybey View Post
    That was what the rest of my post explained, no? Or am I misunderstanding your question?
    Well you acknowledged one heavily regulated industry (insurance) and then talked about anti-monopolistic regulations (valid point as that is necessary for competition), but on what else can we conclude or generalize that regulations do not pose barriers to entry in other industries? Regulation can be varying degrees of necessary and yet at the same time obviously create barriers to entry. I think there are greater barriers to entry in many areas than you acknowledged.

  8. #948
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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    Are these facts wrong. I know Obama is a pet of your. Just asking


    On October 26, 2006, U.S. President George W. Bush signed the Secure Fence Act of 2006 (Pub.L. 109–367) into law stating, “This bill will help protect the American people. This bill will make our borders more secure. It is an important step toward immigration reform."[1]

    The bill was introduced on Sep. 13, 2006 by Peter T. King (R-NY). In the House of Representatives, the Fence Act passed 283 -138 on September 14, 2006. On September 29, 2006 – the Fence Act passed in the Senate 80 -19.

    The Secure Fence Act of 2006’s goal is to help secure America’s borders to decrease illegal entry, drug trafficking, and security threats by building 700 miles (1,100 km) of physical barriers along the Mexico-United States border. Additionally, the law authorizes more vehicle barriers, checkpoints, and lighting as well as authorizes the Department of Homeland Security to increase the use of advanced technology like cameras, satellites, and unmanned aerial vehicles to reinforce infrastructure at the border.[1] Congress approved $1.2 billion in a separate homeland security spending bill to bankroll the fence, though critics say this is $4.8 billion less than what’s likely needed to get it built.

    Secure Fence Act of 2006 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Now who killed building the fence? Just asking

    First, I'm not wrong.
    Second, no Obama is not a "pet of mine". That's absurd.
    Third, the border fence is an expensive boondoggle that will never work.
    Fourth, the Republicans had control of the WH and both houses, and did squat to end illegal immigration back during the Bush Administration.
    Fifth, it was the arch conservative, Ronald Reagan, who actually signed amnesty into law.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  9. #949
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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by tuhaybey View Post
    Oh, no, quite the opposite. We are drowning in capital. That's why we keep having bubbles- the rich are so overstuffed with money that they need to invest somewhere that every crackpot half baked startup out there gets tens of millions of dollars. What we're starving for at present is revenues. We have plenty of capital, plenty of labor, but not enough customers. The reason for that is because the middle class drives revenues and the middle class is being screwed out of its share of the growth.
    I can't go along with your definition of capital. Capital and money are very different animals, you see.

  10. #950
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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by tuhaybey View Post
    No, you're missing what I'm saying. Market forces are supposed to determine wages. Wages are supposed to automatically follow productivity. But they aren't. Wages are basically staying static while productivity shoots up. That isn't supposed to be possible in a capitalist economy if things work like the models, but it is happening and has been for like 30 years now. What I want is to figure out why it isn't working any more and figure out how we can get back to having the market determine wages again because that would mean a radical increase in everybody's wages.

    question....do you follow productivity history?

    has there been spikes in productivity before?

    this may help you

    Productivity improving technologies (historical) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    as more and more automation, and computers control the labor of the planet, productivity of course rises

    and wages for those who work on those machines, programming them, fixing them, building them, also rise

    but the non skilled wages...no they arent rising, nor will they

    too many competing for the same cashier job, because that is all they can do (so why should a company pay them more than the job is worth?)

    skills pay the bills......remember it.....it isnt going to change

    nothing you can say, or do that will change that fact

    so the best thing we can do, is to provide a chance for people to improve themselves.....educations, trade schools, etc

    those opportunities are out there......but the old saying, you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink applies

    they have to WANT to improve, and they have to make the effort to do whatever it takes to make it happen
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

    Ralph Waldo Emerson

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