View Poll Results: What should be done to battle income inequality in the USA?

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  • Do not intervene

    47 51.09%
  • Yes, do intervene

    45 48.91%
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Thread: Income Inequality

  1. #931
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    Re: Income Inequality

    What intervention is being suggested?

    Stay in school, get a good (free) education, choose a profession or trade or skill that is in demand, work towards that (college, apprenticeship, trade school, etc) and work your way up into a career.

    IMO too many people graduate HS or dont even bother and then 'just let life happen,' believing good jobs will fall in their laps? Why? How? That's a fantasy. I blame parents and school guidance counselors for not staying on top of kids LOOOOOONGGG before graduation (like, years) to figure this out. And more parent's responsibilty than guidance counselor's.
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  2. #932
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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by tuhaybey View Post
    A worker is worth their productivity. However much they increase the revenues of their employer, minus all non-labor expenses, that is how much they should be compensated if the market is functioning properly.
    Is the work worth the productivity, if there is too much labor and capital is in short supply? That is, what is causing the present unhappiness.

  3. #933
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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Paying them less than their level of productivity. In order for there to be profits, employees must, by definition, be paid less than the value they bring to the endeavor.
    Are you referring to the marginal level of productivity?
    Anyway, the problem at present is that there are too many workers in the States (though, it is getting better again) because consumers have been buying 10 Cents t-shirts from Bangladesh and the factories have been opening up there or in China. If wages in the US are lifted, the situation will get worse, because they will buy more stuff out there, capital will build factories there and fewer jobs will be enough productive to justify the pay. If you want Americans to be employed and make money, lower the wage.

  4. #934
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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganesh View Post
    Can you give us some examples of individuals in that 10% who have provided equal value for the millions (or billions in some cases) they have extracted from the economy, and if so, why they might be drawing income several orders of magnitude above what their equivalents earned just a few years ago?
    Firstly, the strongest piece of evidence that they have provided not equal but in fact greater value than their income (which isn't extracted, as though the economy had a fixed pot of money to pay out and a dollar to steve meant a dollar from joe) is that they were paid thus for what they were selling. If I sell you an apple for a dollar, that indicates that you valued the apple in my store more than you valued the dollar in your pocket, and that therefore I have, in fact, provided greater than a dollars' worth of value for the dollar I have made.

    Secondly, sure I can. Steve Jobs. Bill Gates. The people who invent, who innovate, who apply technology and knowledge in new ways in order to make entire organizations - entire industries more productive.

  5. #935
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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Neither party has presented a reform bill to the president. Congress, as I said, has done squat about illegal immigration in decades and that, of course, includes both parties. When I said that the person with the most money has the most clout, I was referring not to a political party, but to the deep pocket political donors that contribute to both Republicans and Democrats.

    The mantra that it's the Dems that want open borders and the Reps want to control immigration falls flat when you go back to the time, not so long ago, when the Republicans controlled both houses and the WhiteHouse.
    Are these facts wrong. I know Obama is a pet of your. Just asking


    On October 26, 2006, U.S. President George W. Bush signed the Secure Fence Act of 2006 (Pub.L. 109–367) into law stating, “This bill will help protect the American people. This bill will make our borders more secure. It is an important step toward immigration reform."[1]

    The bill was introduced on Sep. 13, 2006 by Peter T. King (R-NY). In the House of Representatives, the Fence Act passed 283 -138 on September 14, 2006. On September 29, 2006 – the Fence Act passed in the Senate 80 -19.

    The Secure Fence Act of 2006’s goal is to help secure America’s borders to decrease illegal entry, drug trafficking, and security threats by building 700 miles (1,100 km) of physical barriers along the Mexico-United States border. Additionally, the law authorizes more vehicle barriers, checkpoints, and lighting as well as authorizes the Department of Homeland Security to increase the use of advanced technology like cameras, satellites, and unmanned aerial vehicles to reinforce infrastructure at the border.[1] Congress approved $1.2 billion in a separate homeland security spending bill to bankroll the fence, though critics say this is $4.8 billion less than what’s likely needed to get it built.

    Secure Fence Act of 2006 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Now who killed building the fence? Just asking
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  6. #936
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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by tuhaybey View Post
    It isn't that profit in and of itself is bad per se, what is bad is charging more than the economically optimal price. That point where those S and D lines cross- that's the best place for the price to be economically. That's where the most widgets are produced the most efficiently. If you raise the price above that point in order to get more profit, then less widgets are sold and they are sold at a higher, less efficient, price.

    Again, this isn't some crazy theory, this is the most fundamental basis of capitalism. Every conservative economist on the world agrees with this. Every economics 101 textbook in the country goes over this in the first chapter. In fact, it is pretty much the one and only economic concept that pretty much everybody knows- supply and demand. That's what the supply and demand graph is about.
    I can tell you've never owned a business or managed one. The optimal price is what the market will bare that brings in the most profit. That is what sets the price point. When demand is high the business will raise it's price to maximize profit. If I sold one widget for a million dollars but if I drop my price to 900,000 and sell ten of them and my cost is 750,000 what price am I going to put on that widget.

    I quote you as saying "The profits an owner takes are waste? To you, but not an owner of a company. Then you go onto say "They are created by charging customers more than the things you sell them are worth" Sorry but that is how you make a profit and the more profit a company makes the more expansion the company can make and the owners can by more yachts and planes and more toys. Then you say "paying employees less than they are worth." Sorry they are worth what the market dictates. Then you say "It's a business failing to perform well." You are wrong again, the higher the profit the more successful it is. I am going to use one example of high profit - Microsoft. And you say Microsoft, as a business, is failing to perform well. What planet are you on.
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  7. #937
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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    I can tell you've never owned a business or managed one. The optimal price is what the market will bare that brings in the most profit. That is what sets the price point. When demand is high the business will raise it's price to maximize profit. If I sold one widget for a million dollars but if I drop my price to 900,000 and sell ten of them and my cost is 750,000 what price am I going to put on that widget.

    I quote you as saying "The profits an owner takes are waste? To you, but not an owner of a company. Then you go onto say "They are created by charging customers more than the things you sell them are worth" Sorry but that is how you make a profit and the more profit a company makes the more expansion the company can make and the owners can by more yachts and planes and more toys. Then you say "paying employees less than they are worth." Sorry they are worth what the market dictates. Then you say "It's a business failing to perform well." You are wrong again, the higher the profit the more successful it is. I am going to use one example of high profit - Microsoft. And you say Microsoft, as a business, is failing to perform well. What planet are you on.

    here here....i second your comments


    microsoft
    google
    apple

    look at any profitable company

    lots of employees making a good living, and the owners/investors making a good return on their investment

    win/win/win......

    i dont care about your macro economics bull****....

    i care about my 140 employees, myself, and my owner

    if that makes me a bad guy....so be it

    and to us, profit is NOT a dirty word
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

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  8. #938
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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Firstly, the strongest piece of evidence that they have provided not equal but in fact greater value than their income (which isn't extracted, as though the economy had a fixed pot of money to pay out and a dollar to steve meant a dollar from joe) is that they were paid thus for what they were selling. If I sell you an apple for a dollar, that indicates that you valued the apple in my store more than you valued the dollar in your pocket, and that therefore I have, in fact, provided greater than a dollars' worth of value for the dollar I have made.

    Secondly, sure I can. Steve Jobs. Bill Gates. The people who invent, who innovate, who apply technology and knowledge in new ways in order to make entire organizations - entire industries more productive.
    Your argument is because it is so, it is right. It is right exactly because it is so. No offense, but there isn't an awful lot of content in this statement.

    But of course, I get your drift. You are repeating the mantra of the right, that insists on the concept of perfect markets, magically performing their tricks in accordance with the greater imperatives of the cosmos. Marketeers can be tricky, but not quite in that sense.

    The world is far more complex than the comic book scenarios presented by the Tea Party, or similar groups. People often extract money from the economy, not because of some cosmically calculated formula, but simply because they can. That's why you can read about hedge fund managers getting paid billions, when a few years back, such would just be considered modest bankers, plying their craft and earning a middle class income. CEO salaries have rocketed up in recent years, and are now astronomical in comparison to the pre-greed, pre-conservative backlash era of a few decades ago. What did they provide for the economy for this extra fortune? Nothing, as far as any reputable economist is able to discern. In fact, some earned these windfalls while driving their companies into the ground. Here the cosmos did not intervene to tell those naughty lads to put back the money. It has been absent in all other cases of consequence also, sorry to report.

    When you attempt to flog your apples, you may or may not be doing any favors, or contributing anything except to yourself. Maybe your apples are all there are to eat, and people are going to pay a dollar even though they were worth ten cents yesterday. Maybe you have tricked them into believing that your apples are the only thing on offer for the next twenty miles, and so are worth more than they "should" be. Maybe there are lots of apples around, but people haven't seen them, and if they did, they would have bought those. Maybe they did see them, but misread the signs. Maybe they have been misinformed that apples are essential for good health, after reading an exploitative book by another entrepreneur, and so pay more than they should for your apples. The concept that consumer choice is enough to drive a modern economy in just the right fashion is nonsense, except of course if there is an underlying reason to promote such a view. There is, and it is one that promotes the interests of the most affluent in society. I'm sure you can guess.

    Bill Gates,if you read his biography, made his money not because no one on the planet knew as much about computers as he did, but because he did come up with a timely idea, around the same time several others did, but he beat them to the punch by having a relatively well connected and affluent family. If it wasn't him, it would have been someone else. Steve Jobs is dead, but surprise, Apple continues to come up with innovative ideas, and sells well. In fact, the world is awash in nerdy young fellows dreaming up all manner of new apps and new methods of improving the industry. Some provide this for free on the net, others make some money at it. A few get lucky.

    The question remains. What value do those who are drawing an income of many millions, or billions, provide for society? If they were modest bankers or businessmen a few years ago, why is their compensation a thousand times more, for doing the same things? Where does earning power merge with legal embezzlement?

  9. #939
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    Re: Income Inequality

    The question remains. What value do those who are drawing an income of many millions, or billions, provide for society? If they were modest bankers or businessmen a few years ago, why is their compensation a thousand times more, for doing the same things? Where does earning power merge with legal embezzlement?


    why do you care what some investment banker who you will never meet, makes?

    the brass ring is out there for EVERYONE......not everyone will reach it, but everyone can be successful to a point

    i have built a nice nest egg....something to pass on to my kids

    who hopefully will add to it, and their kids will even be better off

    isnt that the legacy we want for our families....for our kids to have it better than we did?

    if not.....what is the point?
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

    Ralph Waldo Emerson

  10. #940
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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganesh View Post
    The question remains. What value do those who are drawing an income of many millions, or billions, provide for society? If they were modest bankers or businessmen a few years ago, why is their compensation a thousand times more, for doing the same things? Where does earning power merge with legal embezzlement?
    They are entitled to make as much as they can. Or is there some law that limits what a person can make in a lifetime? Where does earning power merge with legal embezzlement, it never does. There is no such thing as legal embezzlement, only in the eyes of someone like you that demonize those that have wealth. The only problem is you wishing you were the one with the wealth. Being you don't have it you demonize those that do and call them embezzlers.
    Liberals - Punish the Successful, Reward the Unsuccessful
    Liberals - Tax, Borrow, Spend, and Give Free Stuff
    Obama's legacy - President Donald Trump

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