View Poll Results: What should be done to battle income inequality in the USA?

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  • Do not intervene

    47 51.09%
  • Yes, do intervene

    45 48.91%
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Thread: Income Inequality

  1. #861
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    Re: Income Inequality

    As should be obvious to you from the tone of that editorial, it is baloney. He's just playing silly tricks with the numbers. Including PAC spending when it suits him and not when it doesn't and whatnot. For example, the numbers were Democrats get more donations is in direct donations to the actual candidate. You can only donate a small amount directly to a candidate, so while Democrats always dominate in that category (more small donations) they always get destroyed in the superPAC stuff where the Republicans get the huge donations. Another example is that he pretends that the Koch brothers come in #59 for donations. That is, again, DIRECT donations. When you include their PAC spending, they are #1 by a wide margin. Obviously if this guy has actually looked into any of this, he knows that and is intentionally misleading you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Technology may play a role in this productivity claim.Momentum Machines Burger Robot - Business Insider
    Oh, yes, absolutely technology is almost the entire reason productivity goes up.

    I feel like you're trying to debate a different question than I am. Like you're debating a "do the humans deserve more money" question. I guess I am just assuming that we want humans to have more money. That is the goal of having an economy at all, no? So, to me, the question is just how best to maximize the economic well-being of people. I see that the market isn't working like it is supposed to- 56% of worker's productivity is leaking out and being wasted instead of getting to the people who create it. So, I want to fix that and I'm laying out potential explanations for what is broken and how we could solve it.

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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    High paying jobs are becoming more valuable, low skilled non technical positions remain a dime a dozen. You can't replace a do for or chemist with some schmuck off the street. You can replace most non-skilled employees. There is an abundance of non skilled workers both homegrown and immigrant. Can't be surprised low level jobs remain low wage jobs.
    See? There ARE people out there that understand reality .... well done.
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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by gdgyva View Post
    i pay my workers less than they earn me
    Every company does. But, from an economic perspective, that is inefficiency. Profit taking is waste. So, I'm not saying you should feel bad about doing it or something lame. People are selfish, such is life. But we certainly should design the economic system in a way that minimizes waste as much as possible.

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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by tuhaybey View Post
    Seems you just were not reading carefully. I did say that specifically.



    Again, in a capitalist system, compensation is supposed to track very closely with productivity. In a perfect theoretical model, compensation would be 99.9999999999999% of productivity. In reality, we don't live in a perfect market. In the 1960s, it was around 95%. Today it is around 45%. Obviously the closer to 100%, the better, but any improvement is good. If we could get to even just 75%, that would be a massive leap forward for the country. If we got all the way back to 95%, we would be a truly wealthy nation like that earth has never seen before.
    Ok --- I follow you. So, tell me, where did the extra 50% go? The difference between compensation and productivity - did it just disappear?
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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by tuhaybey View Post
    LOL. So your stance is that companies can't afford to hire people because they hire too many people? And you're sitting there condescending to me? Might want to rethink that buddy.
    No, as a matter of fact, that isn't even close to what I was saying ... in fact, I can't even twist logic enough to figure out how you got there.
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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by GBFAN View Post
    Ok --- I follow you. So, tell me, where did the extra 50% go? The difference between compensation and productivity - did it just disappear?
    The employers just keep it. That's why, for example, the value of the stock market has doubled in the past 6 years, but the median income has not improved at all.

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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by tuhaybey View Post
    The employers just keep it. That's why, for example, the value of the stock market has doubled in the past 6 years, but the median income has not improved at all.
    So, let's see ... money kept by the employer is not considered compensation, right? You're telling us that in the 1960s, employers only took 5% of productivity, right?

    I'm sorry ... you're gonna have to prove that to me. First, there is no difference between the compensation I get as a business owner, and the compensation you get as a laborer. It is nonsensical to try to differentiate.

    But, I can see where your claim MIGHT be interpreted to mean that the money (this mythical 50%) isn't employer compensation, but rather is just left in the corporation, increasing the value of the corporation without benefiting anyone EXCEPT the stockholders. Is that what you're saying?

    Frankly, that's even more nonsensical than your first fantasy. Everyone above the age of 11 knows that money working makes more money than money sitting in a savings account someplace. If you are trying to say the money is reinvested in the company, which in turn increases the value of the company, driving stocks up, and benefiting the stockholders, that is compensation.

    PLEASE tell us just what you're trying to say ... we are sitting on the edge of our seat. (Personally, I'll be even more interested in how this relates to the stock market recovery ... but then, that's just me)
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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by tuhaybey View Post
    The employers just keep it. That's why, for example, the value of the stock market has doubled in the past 6 years, but the median income has not improved at all.
    If people followed the stock market the way they do celebrities they could make more money. But everyone has their priorities in life it seems.

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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by tuhaybey View Post
    Not sure what "blaming the theory" or "changing the theory" would even mean.

    I think there are a lot of causes. Corruption of the Republican Party by the rich obviously plays a big role. The reduction of most markets to oligopoly is a huge part of it. But, no, it doesn't make sense to blame the employees. Again, productivity has been shooting up, so the employees obviously are doing their part. Amazingly, they have even continued to rapidly increase their productivity for decades after they stopped being rewarded for it.
    It's always blame it on someone else for you Liberals.

    Do they get a paycheck? If so, they're being rewarded. If the skills they offer aren't making enough for them, change jobs. Instead, they want to spend more time whining that someone owes them something. If they spent half as much time bettering themselves as they do demanding more for nothing, problems would solve themselves. If someone is making an amount they don't like and they stay, they are to blame. Don't blame the one doing the paying if the one doing the receiving stays and continues to work for it rather than doing something else.

    I have degrees, licenses, and certifications in 3 distinct but indirectly related fields. That didn't happen by sitting on my ass complaining that someone should pay for my education. It took effort, time, and money. That's why if something happened in my current position, I could move into the other the next day. Again, that did't happen by accident or through luck.

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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by tuhaybey View Post
    Seems you just were not reading carefully. I did say that specifically.



    Again, in a capitalist system, compensation is supposed to track very closely with productivity. In a perfect theoretical model, compensation would be 99.9999999999999% of productivity. In reality, we don't live in a perfect market. In the 1960s, it was around 95%. Today it is around 45%. Obviously the closer to 100%, the better, but any improvement is good. If we could get to even just 75%, that would be a massive leap forward for the country. If we got all the way back to 95%, we would be a truly wealthy nation like that earth has never seen before.

    are we talking productivity, or profit

    they are different

    in a commission retail environment, there are two basic models for pay

    pay based on revenue, or pay pay on gross profit generated

    since 1982, when i joined the retail car world.....it has been based upon gross profit (not net)

    And that is at eight of the largest car organizations on the east coast

    productivity, and profit are two different things.....i require the first.....i pay on the second
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

    Ralph Waldo Emerson

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