View Poll Results: What should be done to battle income inequality in the USA?

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  • Do not intervene

    47 51.09%
  • Yes, do intervene

    45 48.91%
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Thread: Income Inequality

  1. #831
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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Again, the headstanding!

    When I say I want to decrease the chance of civil unrest, to not have a revolution, to decrease inequality......I suddenly become a communist.

    Amazing.
    Misdirection, again .....

    What you actually said was "The concept that sharing the wealth when all are causing greater profits is a bad thing?"

    Last time I checked, that's socialism ... a failed experiment at all levels. Why would you propose it again? Redistribution of wealth has never worked ... unless you have a whole new methodology, you're just spouting the same ol' thing over and over gain.
    We're born alone, we live alone, we die alone. Only through our love and friendship can we create the illusion for the moment that we're not alone.
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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    I'm not taking a stand, you are. You are saying that capitalism only exists because people are exploited. I'm just asking you how you were exploited and by whom. I'll add, was that as a result of capitalism or are you saying that it happened because capitalism didn't prevent it?

    I believe that people can be exploited in any system, but capitalism is not a system based on exploitation.
    I'm stating a fact, and comfortably seated on my couch. I'm saying capitalism can only exist with exploitation. You're just trying to get into the standard, you "had a choice" BS argument that is always presented. Further, we're not taking about me, why try to make it personal? Can't speak on the subject in an abstract? Or did you think you're trying to show me the err of my ways be saying no one put a gun to my head or cracked a whip on my back to take that job. Is that what you're doing? If not, it sure looks like you are.

    I'll add, the sum of the product labor produces has to be greater than what labor is paid to produce it. If it less than or equal to, the system fails. When you compensate someone who produces something at a lesser value (minus the cost of materials[read every cost outside of labor]) than that which they produce and you bring to market what do you call that? Without doing this, capitalism fails. You cannot pay labor equal value for the products they produce(again, minus COS - labor), you'd go belly up before you start.

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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    It's not really a new take. It's actually an old take based on historical study. The first time I saw it was by a historian that took note of the fact that capital in the early days of capitalism was commonly friends with their workers and would make great sacrifices for labor. I think the solution is in healing the relationship between capital and labor. What capitalists need to realize is that it is partnership and the welfare of their workers directly affects the growth and prosperity of the nation, which will in turn affect the well being of the capitalist. What labor needs to realize is that capital is not the enemy nor a competing force, but a partner and punishing capital will only punish themselves to a great effect. Do I think it will happen? No, but I don't think spreading the wealth around will ever work as it is only dealing with consequences of a poor relationship and not facing the relationship itself.
    Nothing you've said however contradicts the fact that labor is exploited by capital. I know it is a icky thing, but it is a fact, as I told Ali, you cannot pay labor (minus the rest of the COS) equal value for the product which they produce.

  4. #834
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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    I'm stating a fact, and comfortably seated on my couch. I'm saying capitalism can only exist with exploitation. You're just trying to get into the standard, you "had a choice" BS argument that is always presented. Further, we're not taking about me, why try to make it personal? Can't speak on the subject in an abstract? Or did you think you're trying to show me the err of my ways be saying no one put a gun to my head or cracked a whip on my back to take that job. Is that what you're doing? If not, it sure looks like you are.

    I'll add, the sum of the product labor produces has to be greater than what labor is paid to produce it. If it less than or equal to, the system fails. When you compensate someone who produces something at a lesser value (minus the cost of materials[read every cost outside of labor]) than that which they produce and you bring to market what do you call that? Without doing this, capitalism fails. You cannot pay labor equal value for the products they produce(again, minus COS - labor), you'd go belly up before you start.
    Enjoy your facts and your couch. If your thesis didn't apply to you then you are talking about all the other abstract people in the world. Your mathematical formula means that it is a fact to you, so there really isn't much to discuss since I disagree with you.

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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    Enjoy your facts and your couch. If your thesis didn't apply to you then you are talking about all the other abstract people in the world. Your mathematical formula means that it is a fact to you, so there really isn't much to discuss since I disagree with you.
    You can disagree with me all you want, but you can't argue the math...

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    Re: Income Inequality

    yes....i pay my workers less than they earn me

    i call that a contract...not exploitation

    i trade you salary/compensation for your labor

    win/win

    no one is exploited.....

    of course i make money doing so....it was my idea, my capital, my business that put us together

    without me, you have your labor....you can work for yourself (hopefully) or trade your labor to someone else

    but somehow, someway, you need to be able to turn what you have (labor) for what i have (money)

    that isnt exploitation...that is a contract
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

    Ralph Waldo Emerson

  7. #837
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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    You can disagree with me all you want, but you can't argue the math...
    And your math does not lead to your conclusion that capitalism can only exist with exploitation. You live in a capitalist society, although unless I'm mistaken, you were a government employee, where you or any of your co-workers exploited?

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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by gdgyva View Post
    yes....i pay my workers less than they earn me

    i call that a contract...not exploitation

    i trade you salary/compensation for your labor

    win/win

    no one is exploited.....

    of course i make money doing so....it was my idea, my capital, my business that put us together

    without me, you have your labor....you can work for yourself (hopefully) or trade your labor to someone else

    but somehow, someway, you need to be able to turn what you have (labor) for what i have (money)

    that isnt exploitation...that is a contract
    pouring syrup on shyte don't make it pancakes...

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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    And your math does not lead to your conclusion that capitalism can only exist with exploitation. You live in a capitalist society, although unless I'm mistaken, you were a government employee, where you or any of your co-workers exploited?
    Of course it does. You think so eh? capitalist-ish society, me thinks. I was a government employee for a time. I've also been exploited and have done a helluva allot more exploiting.

  10. #840
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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    Nothing you've said however contradicts the fact that labor is exploited by capital. I know it is a icky thing, but it is a fact, as I told Ali, you cannot pay labor (minus the rest of the COS) equal value for the product which they produce.
    The point wasn't that anyone is being exploited but that interconnection and the lack thereof has a strong effect on how people relate to each other. Smaller companies in small towns will commonly have better relations between owner and workers than small companies in big cities, while small companies in big cities will have commonly have better relations between owner and work than large corporations. The same is true for pretty much anything involving people. The more interconnected and knowledgeable they are of each other the better relations will be.

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