View Poll Results: What should be done to battle income inequality in the USA?

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  • Do not intervene

    47 51.09%
  • Yes, do intervene

    45 48.91%
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Thread: Income Inequality

  1. #651
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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by b_dubz View Post
    Their has been a decrease in these programs, not increase.

    Poverty rates in america do not adjust for cost of living since the late 60s, only for inflation. Which is insane.

    It is your bs that does not pass the truth or logic or any other test. Have you ever seen a poor person?


    Do us a favor ... prove your point.

    Take the median poverty income in 1993 ... add to it the value of the government programs available to them.

    Do the same for 2013.

    Adjust for inflation .... and get back to us.
    Last edited by GBFAN; 09-28-14 at 12:52 AM.
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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by GBFAN View Post
    Do us a favor ... prove your point.

    Take the median income in 1993 ... add to it the value of the government programs available to them.

    Do the same for 2013.

    Adjust for inflation .... and get back to us.
    How would I value government programs? That's kinda hard to figure... Kinda depends on the state too A much simpler way would be to study history and fact. Like the fact that Clinton took a huge chunk outta welfare in 94

    Alhough I spose since the affordable care act was past cost of living went down a bit, which probably counters the welfare cuts clinton did... However bush cut it more so that would not be accounted for...

    Or the fact that we have only factored in for inflation and not the cost of living since the 60s...

    Frankly I don't understand what that would prove, and what i was saying is that we don't factor in cost of living increases... Median income is irrelevant of cost of living outpaces it...

  3. #653
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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by b_dubz View Post
    Well why don't you elaborate instead of making silly comments? How much did your family make? How many ppl were their? Simple things like that prove your statements... Or disprove... What EV's...
    You want truth? I'll give you truth ...

    I was born in 1947 - we were 'Appalachia poor' - got running water in the house in 1958, and toilets the next year - our first tv was in 1961. We heated the house with wood we cut every summer. Lived on government cheese, corn meal, and illegal venison. So, I know poor ...

    There were eight of us ... not including my grandma who slept on our couch until she died. My dad worked 12 hours a day as an auto mechanic ... my mom took care of the kids, raised a garden and the animals. I remember the time when my old man came home all excited because he got a pay raise to $2.10 an hour. Picked green beans for $.05/lb starting when I was 9. Then, it was blueberries in the fall. We sold them at a stand beside the road. When I turned 15, I worked at a grocery/general store - $0.75/hour (big money!!) - it went into the family fund. We were the kids who got two pair of overalls every fall (even my sister) and a pair of shoes. We lived in hand-me-downs and donations. So,yeah, I know poor ...

    I got out of that ... Got my bachelor's in journalism and my Masters in political science (thanks to the Air Force). When I was in high school, I took several college courses - when I was drafted, and joined the USAF instead, I parlayed that into their education programs. Worked my ass off ... refused to be refused. In my twenty years in the Air Force, I always had two jobs ... I pumped more gas than most Arab sheiks. So, I served active duty, went to school, AND worked a second job. If you want to do it bad enough, you will figure out a way to do it.

    None of that means a thing ... but, yet, it means everything. If you want out bad enough, you can get out. If I can do it, anybody can do it. If you don't want it bad enough, you can always find an excuse to not get it. THAT is how the real world works.

    But, you're right about one thing ... I have little or no sympathy with those who whine and complain about how the 'system' held them back, or how the 'man' kept them down. That's all self-serving bull****. If you can only make a nickel shining shoes, it just means you have to shine more shoes. If you only get a nickel picking beans, you just have to pick more beans. If you don't want to shine shoes or pick beans, get your ass out of there ... join the military, move to another town. Do whatever you have to do ... unless, of course, you're able to convince yourself that it's not your fault - that you're the victim.

    But, by all means, complain about the system - claim how it holds you back. It's true - it does. We subsidize non-performance. We fail to reward those who excel. Our whole school system is built to hold back the performers while we carry the non-performers. Why work at a sh*tty job when you can make just as much on welfare? $40K for doing nothing? Sign me up. We have robbed our poor of the incentive of upward movement. We have created a permanent underclass of poor ... and we did it so we could fell all warm and giggly about how we helped 'those poor downtrodden'. Their plight feeds our societal ego ... and we should be ashamed.

    Where did I end up? Built my own company based on knowledge gained in the Air Force. Built my second company in Brazil. I'm retired now, and quite comfortably, I must admit. Anybody CAN do what I did .. they just have to WANT to bad enough.
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  4. #654
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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by b_dubz View Post
    How would I value government programs? That's kinda hard to figure... Kinda depends on the state too A much simpler way would be to study history and fact. Like the fact that Clinton took a huge chunk outta welfare in 94

    Alhough I spose since the affordable care act was past cost of living went down a bit, which probably counters the welfare cuts clinton did... However bush cut it more so that would not be accounted for...

    Or the fact that we have only factored in for inflation and not the cost of living since the 60s...

    Frankly I don't understand what that would prove, and what i was saying is that we don't factor in cost of living increases... Median income is irrelevant of cost of living outpaces it...

    Actually, it's pretty simple ... Google to the rescue.

    This week, the Cato Institute released a new study calculating the state-by-state value of this typical welfare package for a mother with two children participating in seven common welfare programs — Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF), food stamps (SNAP), Medicaid, housing assistance, WIC, energy assistance (LIHEAP), and free commodities. We found that, in 2013, the value of those benefits varied widely across states, from a low of $16,984 in Mississippi to an astonishing high of $49,175 in Hawaii.

    In nine states — Hawaii, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Jersey, Rhode Island, New York, Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maryland — as well as Washington, D.C., annual benefits were worth more than $35,000 a year. The median value of the welfare package across the 50 states is $28,500.


    Do the same for 1993.

    You said that welfare had stagnated for the past 50 years ... the numbers say otherwise. If THAT error is noted, it casts doubt on the rest of your commentary. Maybe you need to prove all of them ...
    We're born alone, we live alone, we die alone. Only through our love and friendship can we create the illusion for the moment that we're not alone.
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  5. #655
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    Re: Income Inequality

    Income redistribution is something that ALWAYS happens in America....despite the cries and whines from the right-wing about it. GBW tax cuts for the wealthiest of Americans "redistributed" wealth to the wealthiest 1% of the population. Democrat tax cuts for the middle class "redistribute" wealth back to the middle class. This is the reality of living in a capitalistic society.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  6. #656
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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I was borrowing the socialist argument and stretching to it's logical limits to demonstrate its absurdity. The idea we should pay for things because it benefits all of us logically leads to the conclusion that we should almost pay for everything. I suppose you are right about cars as we could just as easily provide them bus fare, but the point appears to stand none the less. Really, if you think about it, Orwell was right to stretch this argument to everything except entertainment.
    If you take any idea to its extreme, it does become unworkable. Socialism is the idea of paying for some things in common to its extreme.

    It is not practical, on the other hand, to pay for some things privately. Private police, only arresting people who don't pay? How about private firehouses that will only put out fires in subscribers' houses? the military? No, the real question is what should be paid for collectively, not if everything or nothing should.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    I don't know what you mean, a household with employment still can receive aid.
    Yes, they can. The problem with that is that it takes away the incentive to improve one's position.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  8. #658
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    Re: Income Inequality

    In the second experiment, Ariely and Norton asked participants to guess how wealth was distributed in the United States, and then to write how it would be divvied up in an ideal would (this, it seems, served as the template for Norton’s most recent study). Americans had little idea how concentrated wealth truly was. Subjects estimated that the top 20 percent of U.S. households owned about 59 percent of the country’s net worth, whereas in the real world, they owned about 84 percent of it. In their own private utopia, subjects said that the top quintile would claim just 32 percent of the wealth. In fact, the ideal looked strikingly like Sweden.

    The Actual Wealth Distribution of the U.S., What Americans Think the Wealth Distribution Is, and What They’d Like It to Be



    As in Norton’s more recent study, responses varied a bit by age, income, and political party, but there was overall agreement that America would be better off with a smaller wealth gap.


    Estimated and Ideal Wealth Distribution by Income and Political Affiliation



    “People drastically underestimate the current disparities in wealth and income in their societies,” Norton told me in an email, “and their ideals are more equal than their estimates, which are already more equal than the actual levels. Maybe most importantly, people from all walks of life—Democrats and Republicans, rich and poor, all over the world—have a large degree of consensus in their ideals: Everyone’s ideals are more equal than the way they think things are.” Theoretically, Americans aren’t exceptional in their views about distribution at all—they have a sense of fairness similar to that of Germans, French, and Australians, and most Americans would be offended if they actually knew the degree of economic inequality that exists in this country.

    Americans have no idea how bad inequality is: New Harvard Business School study.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  9. #659
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    Re: Income Inequality

    Quote Originally Posted by b_dubz View Post
    Conservative ideals are anti ppl. This country has gone so far to the right its absurd.

    Liberalism is dead Obama and Clinton proved that.
    Interesting, since neither Obama nor Clinton are liberals.

  10. #660
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    Re: Income Inequality

    Bump..


    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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