View Poll Results: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement

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  • Yes, I still feel the same.

    30 50.00%
  • It's complicated.

    17 28.33%
  • No, I have switched my thoughts.

    5 8.33%
  • The whole thing makes my head hurt.

    8 13.33%
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Thread: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

  1. #41
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    That's why we put Saddam in charge in the first place. But then he renigged on the deal...he was only supposed to sell oil to others for USD. Tensions between us made him decide to push the envelope, and we killed him for it.

    We'll find a new Saddam soon, IMO. And he'll be just as bad as the old...with one difference. He'll follow his marching orders from us.
    Is the left still pushing that corny fantasy that the US/CIA installed Saddam in power in Iraq?

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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    We actually did take him seriously enough, until a policy change in early 2001 diverted most of our anti-terrorism focus towards Iraq. Then he was allowed to slip through because our executive branch was too busy looking for excuses to attack Saddam Hussein.
    What specific policy change in 2001 are you referring to? It was the Clinton administration that made regime change in Iraq official US policy. And you do know that Bush did not order an invasion of Iraq until 2003, don't you? You are making it up as you go along.

  3. #43
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    I was vehemently against our incursion into Iraq in 2003, but now that we screwed things up then, we have a responsibility to fix it now (we broke it; we own in).

    Though I believed in 2003 we were being sold a bill of goods (starting with the whole concept of "weapons of mass destruction", something designed to sound ominous just to scare people) until I heard this great NPR piece in February 2003 about the Cons belief that Iraq was ripe for democracy and once Iraq "fell" to democracy, we would have a tsunami of democracy in the middle east. The Bush legacy would be to solve the middle east once and for all. Then it all made sense, as being threatened by some two bit dictator sure did not. Of course, this tsunami of democracy would not sell; but "weapons of mass destruction" surely would scare the pants off an America just off 9/11. So, it was a bill of goods.

    Then came is whole "coalition of the willing", which upon further review, given money and promises made, was really the coalition of the billing... and a roster of world powerhouses like Honduras behind it. Unlike Bush I, that actually had a coalition, this looked failed from the get-go. I figured if Iraq's arab neighbors did not see Saddam as a threat, he wasn't a threat... and, anything we did would just come off as US imperialism (over OIL --- in fact, wasn't an operation name Operation Iraqi Liberation, until they figured out the acromyn would not sell?)

    That said, just as in 2003, if we do not have Arab nations (and now, specifically Sunni nations) committing a significant ground effort, everything will be for naught. Therefore, I am for military action only if we have legitimate Sunni partners, otherwise, we probably should do nothing as there is no point in doubling down on stupid.
    It was not broken until we failed to leave a contingent of troops behind to guarantee the peace as we did in Germany and Japan. And again when Obama failed to stop ISIS in Syria.

  4. #44
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement, given the recent events with ISIS and current status of Afghanistan, that you did before?

    Think back to your opinion when Bush II first invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. Think back to when Obama withdrew from Iraq. Think about the current alleged wind down in Afghanistan. Doesn't really matter what your opinion was, just ask yourself if you feel the same now as you did then. And why do you feel the same or differently.

    Please elaborate.
    Yes of course. I was in thin company then and now. US foreign policy has produced most of the trouble in the ME. Sure, sure, the trible/religious conflicts are ancient. But what we have today is a result of US interference. But let's get our boots on and go make some more money.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  5. #45
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I was very much a pro-Iraq GW invasion at the time. Now, I am much more for containment and basically letting the middle east get swept up into a civil war where shiite and sunni can kill themselves as much as they want; keeping their attention on each other instead of Western nations to bomb and create terrorism. Let them kill each other for the next 10 to 20 years - all the Western nations need to do is contain any of the terrorists groups from attacking the West. To me - this is a ME issue - they need to fight it out. I'd be find if ISIS invaded Saudi Arabia, Lebanon or whatever. Let Muslim fight Muslim - America and Europe can simply play defense and support these nations with medicine, food, etc...
    The only problem with that scenario is that it would create another holocaust. Utter millions of innocents, Christians who happen to live in those areas, and even muslims who refuse to abide by harsh interpretations of sharia law will be slaughtered. sending medication and care packages is not going to mitigate that.

  6. #46
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Yes of course. I was in thin company then and now. US foreign policy has produced most of the trouble in the ME. Sure, sure, the trible/religious conflicts are ancient. But what we have today is a result of US interference. But let's get our boots on and go make some more money.
    I don't necessarily disagree, but I think you err in laying the blame primarily at the US's feet. Our involvement is only more recent, relatively. The problem has it's roots in European colonialism, primarily Britain and France.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  7. #47
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    The only problem with that scenario is that it would create another holocaust. Utter millions of innocents, Christians who happen to live in those areas, and even muslims who refuse to abide by harsh interpretations of sharia law will be slaughtered. sending medication and care packages is not going to mitigate that.
    Well, I can see the West stepping in to prevent any new holocaust for moral reasons but not intervene in the actual civil war. I would find that acceptable.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    I don't necessarily disagree, but I think you err in laying the blame primarily at the US's feet. Our involvement is only more recent, relatively. The problem has it's roots in European colonialism, primarily Britain and France.
    Ok, then let's stay home and let them fix it. Oh, that's right.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  9. #49
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement, given the recent events with ISIS and current status of Afghanistan, that you did before?

    Think back to your opinion when Bush II first invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. Think back to when Obama withdrew from Iraq. Think about the current alleged wind down in Afghanistan. Doesn't really matter what your opinion was, just ask yourself if you feel the same now as you did then. And why do you feel the same or differently.

    Please elaborate.
    Hmm, the invasion of Iraq by Bush II I thought was a bad idea. I never like pre-emptive wars which makes the ones who pre-empt the aggressor. Afghanistan I was all for and I loved the way it was fought. A few SF and paramilitary on the ground along with our air power the soldiers of the Northern Alliance doing the fighting on the ground, ideal. It worked and the Taliban was driven out of Afghanistan. Then we made a mistake in my opinion, we began nation building and put in over a 100,000 troops. Better to have let the Afghani choose their own form of government, kept some SF and paramilitary in Afghanistan to call in more air strikes when the Taliban tried to return and continue to let the Afghani fight on the ground.

    I think we should have let Libya and Syria alone, our national security was not threaten by Khadafy or Assad and if we let them put down their little rebellion we most likely wouldn’t be faced with the situation we have today. Khadafy had stopped his support of terrorism a long time ago, Assad never bothered us. Now Libya is complete chaos and turmoil with the different tribes and factions fighting each other and has become haven for some terrorist organization. ISIS in Syria and Iraq, nothing more needs to be said.

    The total withdrawal from Iraq by President Obama, that is what the American people wanted and that is what he campaigned on. It was fine with me. No one, Obama or Bush II could have known or seen how Maliki would screw up Iraq and start to suppress the Sunni minority and leave Iraq open to ISIS and rebellion. This situation is more of Maliki’s making than either Bush II or Obama in my opinion.

    There is one thing I will never understand, why we, the United States has to continue to stick our nose into every little country’s business. Why this dictator must go while those ten other dictators must remain. The world is a crazy place and so are we.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  10. #50
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Hmm, the invasion of Iraq by Bush II I thought was a bad idea. I never like pre-emptive wars which makes the ones who pre-empt the aggressor. Afghanistan I was all for and I loved the way it was fought. A few SF and paramilitary on the ground along with our air power the soldiers of the Northern Alliance doing the fighting on the ground, ideal. It worked and the Taliban was driven out of Afghanistan. Then we made a mistake in my opinion, we began nation building and put in over a 100,000 troops. Better to have let the Afghani choose their own form of government, kept some SF and paramilitary in Afghanistan to call in more air strikes when the Taliban tried to return and continue to let the Afghani fight on the ground.

    I think we should have let Libya and Syria alone, our national security was not threaten by Khadafy or Assad and if we let them put down their little rebellion we most likely wouldn’t be faced with the situation we have today. Khadafy had stopped his support of terrorism a long time ago, Assad never bothered us. Now Libya is complete chaos and turmoil with the different tribes and factions fighting each other and has become haven for some terrorist organization. ISIS in Syria and Iraq, nothing more needs to be said.

    The total withdrawal from Iraq by President Obama, that is what the American people wanted and that is what he campaigned on. It was fine with me. No one, Obama or Bush II could have known or seen how Maliki would screw up Iraq and start to suppress the Sunni minority and leave Iraq open to ISIS and rebellion. This situation is more of Maliki’s making than either Bush II or Obama in my opinion.

    There is one thing I will never understand, why we, the United States has to continue to stick our nose into every little country’s business. Why this dictator must go while those ten other dictators must remain. The world is a crazy place and so are we.
    Spot on bro, no need for further debate.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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