View Poll Results: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement

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  • Yes, I still feel the same.

    30 50.00%
  • It's complicated.

    17 28.33%
  • No, I have switched my thoughts.

    5 8.33%
  • The whole thing makes my head hurt.

    8 13.33%
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Thread: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

  1. #331
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    To me an objective is not allowing these Islamists to run across the border to a safe haven until the coast is clear. An example of an objective would be completely destroying Japan's ability to wage war by packing B-29s with incendiaries and then lighting up the entire country. When that doesn't work, start dropping nukes, and then don't worry about the morality of it.
    It's the extremes people have gone to defend failed policy. The phony "war on terror" cannot be won, has not been won and will not be won no matter what party is in the White House. But it's job security for the military and the defense contractors as well as other big businesses.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  2. #332
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    it was not erroneous. the Middle East cannot be stabilized by external military force. and most of the neoconservatives who see to think it can are not willing to pay more in taxes to fund the endless state of war, so the argument is pointless anyway.
    The Ottoman Empire was a different age, for one, all circumstances vastly different, and to control that empire, they occupied all of it. Our Middle East policy has been such a colossal failure it's hard to know what our leadership has been thinking. But many of them have stated more than frankly that it's been about oil, including our current Secretary of Defence. And yet, to this moment, that notion finds ridicule, here and everywhere else.

    "People say we're not fighting for oil. Of course we are. They talk about America's national interest. What the hell do you think they're talking about? We're not there for figs".

    Chuck Hagel
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  3. #333
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Bush's account of al Qaida in that particular speech at that particular time was absolutely 100% correct and is verifiably so. He did not at any time say that al Qaida was no longer dangerous or that we should let up the pressure. But the damage done to al Qaida at that time was real, all the leaders were scrambling for cover and trying to be invisible or unfindable, and the organization was weakened and unable to operate in the open or to initiate anything approaching their success obtained on 9/11. He made no claims that were not supported with the evidence available at that time. What he did claim has been oft misquoted or misrepresented by Bush-haters on the left.

    I hope to live long enough to see a society return to a culture that doesn't focus on the politics of personal destruction and demonizing somebody instead of looking honestly at successes, mistakes, and how we might do it better.
    Well then, if you want to preach to me about ethics, form and honesty. Let's talk again about the entire war that we had in Iraq which was sold to America by a president devoid of such. Then we wouldn't even be talking about his foolish and very inaccurate statement two months into it, that Al Qaeda was DECIMATED. I just proved to you that Al Qaeda, and their ideology, is very much alive, and they have actually been the beneficiaries of US policy in the Middle East.

    So, while we're hoping, I hope I live long enough to see a rational policy advanced in the Middle East that brings containment to extremists, security and peace to the folk that live there, and a little bit of happiness to them as well. Instead of an energy driven policy that keeps our pentagon busy destroying property and killing people. But that will depend on how long Americans keep supporting the failed policy.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  4. #334
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Do you realize that if you claim AQ was the enemy in Iraq then you are an ally of Dick Cheney?
    So! I suppose in that case it would make me an ally of George Bush on that issue as well. He's the one that stated two months into the war in Iraq that Al Qaeda was decimated. Guess he didn't know who he was fighting.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  5. #335
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Well then, if you want to preach to me about ethics, form and honesty. Let's talk again about the entire war that we had in Iraq which was sold to America by a president devoid of such. Then we wouldn't even be talking about his foolish and very inaccurate statement two months into it, that Al Qaeda was DECIMATED. I just proved to you that Al Qaeda, and their ideology, is very much alive, and they have actually been the beneficiaries of US policy in the Middle East.

    So, while we're hoping, I hope I live long enough to see a rational policy advanced in the Middle East that brings containment to extremists, security and peace to the folk that live there, and a little bit of happiness to them as well. Instead of an energy driven policy that keeps our pentagon busy destroying property and killing people. But that will depend on how long Americans keep supporting the failed policy.
    Setting aside that you completely missed the point made and went straight to ad hominem and then charged off to a different subject, I will wish you a pleasant day.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  6. #336
    Why so un**great?
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    Nothing immature about my handle. Like I said, it expresses the majority opinion of obamacare.
    Do you honestly think that the majority is never immature or small-minded?

    And now you are suggesting that Americans fight in the war on terror with or without the military? Oh my!
    Not at all; just that they have to be willing to do so if they want to earn the right to support the war.
    I fight against the ignorant, irresponsible, and/or closed-minded.
    This group is the worst enemy of America and its freedoms. It includes, but is not limited to, all Trump supporters.

  7. #337
    Why so un**great?
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    They aren't, but as far as I'm concerned those who have faced enemy fire are the only ones who have the right to question others' courage.
    Giving a coward a rifle and a uniform does not make him any less of a coward.
    I fight against the ignorant, irresponsible, and/or closed-minded.
    This group is the worst enemy of America and its freedoms. It includes, but is not limited to, all Trump supporters.

  8. #338
    global liberation

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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by DifferentDrummr View Post
    It dates back to the War of 1812, and it's true. If you want to send Americans into harm's way without being willing to go yourself, you disgust me.
    You want a military not controlled by civilians? You do realize a military that doesn't answer to civilian authority is a bad idea, right?

  9. #339
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    My views haven't changed. I supported the Iraq war because of Saddam's unwillingness to follow UN guidelines, his killing and mismanagement of his own population, and his invasion of neighboring countries. I believe that the record speaks for itself and the Iraq war saved lives of Iraqis, looking at the demographic data on death rates, population growth, infant mortality rates, etc.. It was a major mistake to pull out and not reach an agreement to maintain forces there. The Congressional Authorizaton for war there listed the 23 reasons, most of which were valid.

    I was always opposed to Afghanistan, never saw the purpose of the war there, and do not think a war there is winnable in any sense. I thought that Bush's plan was sound, however, in the use of special forces, CIA, and Afghani troops. A major mistake to escalate and expose so many conventional troops as targets. I guess that the reason for invading was that Saudis and a few others trained there as well as in Germany and the US and did 9/11 but the life of Osama is certainly not worth the lives of 2,700 Americans or the lives of all the Pakistani and Afghani civilians.

  10. #340
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement, given the recent events with ISIS and current status of Afghanistan, that you did before?

    Think back to your opinion when Bush II first invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. Think back to when Obama withdrew from Iraq. Think about the current alleged wind down in Afghanistan. Doesn't really matter what your opinion was, just ask yourself if you feel the same now as you did then. And why do you feel the same or differently.

    Please elaborate.
    I was strongly against the Iraq War in 2003, because I was afraid it would be a huge mistake. Now I feel frustrated because all my fears have been confirmed. On the long run, that war created even a much bigger mess than it was supposed to end.

    I feel differently about Afghanistan now. I felt in 2001 and the years on that it was a justified war, and was optimistic about the outcome, that some kind of nation building was possible and would be successful. Now, not anymore.

    I was ambivalent about Obama's withdrawal from Iraq. On one side, I found it a good and necessary step, but wasn't sure if the job was really done. And I ultimately knew too few about the situation to make an educated guess whether the time was right or not. Now I feel it was a mistake.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

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