View Poll Results: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement

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  • Yes, I still feel the same.

    30 50.00%
  • It's complicated.

    17 28.33%
  • No, I have switched my thoughts.

    5 8.33%
  • The whole thing makes my head hurt.

    8 13.33%
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Thread: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

  1. #301
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by DifferentDrummr View Post
    Either way, don't try to resurrect the myth that veterans are somehow more qualified to debate topics like these.
    They aren't, but as far as I'm concerned those who have faced enemy fire are the only ones who have the right to question others' courage.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  2. #302
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    it is a conflict between Sunni and Shia which has been going on for more than a thousand years. there is no role for the US in this holy war.
    And how many centuries did Europe fight it out? The world wars in the 20th centuries were only a taste.


    ah, the bootstraps argument. i have no interest in this argument, as it is too simplistic to solve our current employment problems.
    Give a man a fish and you feed him for the night...teach him how to fish, you will feed him for life. Life's best lesson is self initiative.

    this decade it is. there are areas of stability in the Middle East. they should address the areas of instability in the region.
    And they were stable decades before they were overrun by the Iraqis. Jordan has been stable for a while. The middle east can be stabilized. The fanatical Islamic terorrists do not represent the entire middle east.

    as i've previously explained, the current Middle East is not analogous to twentieth century Europe. I will not explain this again the next time you Godwin.
    ISIS is merely in an earlier stage. They are working on one caliphate. Hitler nearly gained control of all of Europe.

    i like that we have some points of agreement even though we are diametrically opposed on the central point. at least we can agree on part of it.
    At least it's honest agreement and disagreement. Thanks for the debate.

  3. #303
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    They aren't, but as far as I'm concerned those who have faced enemy fire are the only ones who have the right to question others' courage.
    I would modify your statement to say that those who have faced enemy fire are the only ones who have the right to question the courage of others facing enemy fire. But when it comes to non-combat situations, being a combat vet is not necessarily the best qualification. For instance, a single mother sending her little child off to school on the first day requires a whole different set of courage, as does the determination she must show day after day, year after year, in providing for her child(ren). You may not agree with the comparison, but there's different kinds of courage...and there's no single type of courage that's best for all situations that require courage to be shown.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  4. #304
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    In total their empire lasted around 600-700 years. Few have done better.
    still failed. trying to occupy too much land always does the empire in. also,

    3. Again, if the campaign is protracted, the resources of the State will not be equal to the strain.

    4. Now, when your weapons are dulled, your ardor damped, your strength exhausted and your treasure spent, other chieftains will spring up to take advantage of your extremity. Then no man, however wise, will be able to avert the consequences that must ensue.

    5. Thus, though we have heard of stupid haste in war, cleverness has never been seen associated with long delays.

    6. There is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare.

  5. #305
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    ObamacareFail's Avatar
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by DifferentDrummr View Post
    Clearly you missed the part about "with or without the military."

    Whether Joe is disabled or too old to enlist isn't the point, either. The only thing that matters is whether Joe is willing to fight regardless of his physical condition. If he believes in the worthiness of the action, he should be. Simple as that.
    But then you are not privy to what John is or is not willing to do if able. And most rational folks can work out that not everyone that is willing to fight will be accepted into the armed forces. Take myself for example. I am a 60 year old with glaucoma and arthritis. Willingness does not matter. If I tried to re-enlist into the armed forces, they would laugh at me. That does not mean I do not have a right to support war or the troops who fight it. Not even all the young, healthy and willing can get in. In today's professional military, they are very picky.


    Again, not the point. The point was the underlying hypocrisy on your part.
    No hypocrisy on my part.

  6. #306
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    And how many centuries did Europe fight it out? The world wars in the 20th centuries were only a taste.
    the Middle East is more analogous to Europe in the Middle ages. it has to become stable on its own.

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    Give a man a fish and you feed him for the night...teach him how to fish, you will feed him for life. Life's best lesson is self initiative.
    there has to be a lake to fish in. i support guaranteeing access to that lake regardless of ability to pay.

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    And they were stable decades before they were overrun by the Iraqis. Jordan has been stable for a while. The middle east can be stabilized. The fanatical Islamic terorrists do not represent the entire middle east.
    and they need to be actively rejected by others in the region.

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    At least it's honest agreement and disagreement. Thanks for the debate.
    yep. that is why our debates actually go somewhere interesting instead of the usual "you're an evil wrong poopyhead" nonsense that everyone else does. thank you for an honest debate, as well.

  7. #307
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    I would modify your statement to say that those who have faced enemy fire are the only ones who have the right to question the courage of others facing enemy fire. But when it comes to non-combat situations, being a combat vet is not necessarily the best qualification. For instance, a single mother sending her little child off to school on the first day requires a whole different set of courage, as does the determination she must show day after day, year after year, in providing for her child(ren). You may not agree with the comparison, but there's different kinds of courage...and there's no single type of courage that's best for all situations that require courage to be shown.
    The context was one poster referring to others as chickenhawks.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  8. #308
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    But then you are not privy to what John is or is not willing to do if able.
    John is hypothetical; we can be privy to any of his thoughts that you want.

    And most rational folks can work out that not everyone that is willing to fight will be accepted into the armed forces. Take myself for example. I am a 60 year old with glaucoma and arthritis. Willingness does not matter.
    It's all that matters. Once again, I said fight "with or without the military."

    No hypocrisy on my part.
    Sure there is: you criticize others for using words that are "immature and small-minded" while indulging in the use of them yourself (specifically, "obamacarefail.") Even if the ACA is a failure, the phrase itself is immature.
    I fight against the ignorant, irresponsible, and/or closed-minded.
    This group is the worst enemy of America and its freedoms. It includes, but is not limited to, all Trump supporters.

  9. #309
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by DifferentDrummr View Post
    John is hypothetical; we can be privy to any of his thoughts that you want.


    It's all that matters. Once again, I said fight "with or without the military."


    Sure there is: you criticize others for using words that are "immature and small-minded" while indulging in the use of them yourself (specifically, "obamacarefail.") Even if the ACA is a failure, the phrase itself is immature.
    Nothing immature about my handle. Like I said, it expresses the majority opinion of obamacare. And now you are suggesting that Americans fight in the war on terror with or without the military? Oh my!

  10. #310
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    The context was one poster referring to others as chickenhawks.
    Ah. Okay. If that's the case, then I would have to defer in most cases to those with actual combat experience. But please bear in mind the word 'most', because not so long ago we were led into an illegal and unprovoked war by a president who was kept protected by being part of a 'boutique' sqadron, and cheered on by a passel of conservative pundits, most of whose military experience seems to have been comprised of watching the movie "Patton".
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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