View Poll Results: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement

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  • Yes, I still feel the same.

    30 50.00%
  • It's complicated.

    17 28.33%
  • No, I have switched my thoughts.

    5 8.33%
  • The whole thing makes my head hurt.

    8 13.33%
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Thread: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

  1. #261
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    Jack Hays's Avatar
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by DifferentDrummr View Post
    It dates back to the War of 1812, and it's true. If you want to send Americans into harm's way without being willing to go yourself, you disgust me.
    And what right have you earned to be disgusted by anyone?
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  2. #262
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Surges worked in both Afghanistan and Iraq. By 2008 Iraq was a victory that BHO has since thrown away. That and his hesitation in Syria gave rise to ISIS.
    If by "work" you mean the surges destroyed the Taliban and the core of al-Qaeda in Iraq you're wrong. Mullah Omar is still very much alive, along the the Afghan Taliban, who just fled to Pakistan where they enjoy safe haven today and are just waiting for us to exit the country and are killing an increasing number of Afghan troops. All the surge in Iraq did was drive Sunni militants across the border into Syria; ISIS gained its core from Ansar-al-Islam and al-Qaeda in Iraq. ISIS' so-called caliph is Iraqi. Many of the organization's best fighters are veterans of the U.S. surge. Now they're back--bigger and badder than ever.
    Нава́льный 2018

  3. #263
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    If by "work" you mean the surges destroyed the Taliban and the core of al-Qaeda in Iraq you're wrong. Mullah Omar is still very much alive, along the the Afghan Taliban, who just fled to Pakistan where they enjoy safe haven today and are just waiting for us to exit the country and are killing an increasing number of Afghan troops. All the surge in Iraq did was drive Sunni militants across the border into Syria; ISIS gained its core from Ansar-al-Islam and al-Qaeda in Iraq. ISIS' so-called caliph is Iraqi. Many of the organization's best fighters are veterans of the U.S. surge. Now they're back--bigger and badder than ever.
    You are correct that safe havens in both Pakistan and Syria helped diminished remnant units to survive. Nonetheless both surges achieved their objectives.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  4. #264
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    You are correct that safe havens in both Pakistan and Syria helped diminished remnant units to survive. Nonetheless both surges achieved their objectives.
    To me an objective is not allowing these Islamists to run across the border to a safe haven until the coast is clear. An example of an objective would be completely destroying Japan's ability to wage war by packing B-29s with incendiaries and then lighting up the entire country. When that doesn't work, start dropping nukes, and then don't worry about the morality of it.
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  5. #265
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    To me an objective is not allowing these Islamists to run across the border to a safe haven until the coast is clear. An example of an objective would be completely destroying Japan's ability to wage war by packing B-29s with incendiaries and then lighting up the entire country. When that doesn't work, start dropping nukes, and then don't worry about the morality of it.
    Thank you for your military insight.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  6. #266
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Thank you for your military insight.
    It's really not complicated. To paraphrase Curtis LeMay, you just keep killing them until they run out of people.
    Нава́льный 2018

  7. #267
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by DifferentDrummr View Post
    It dates back to the War of 1812, and it's true. If you want to send Americans into harm's way without being willing to go yourself, you disgust me.
    I disgust you? Do grow up. I served in the military and was willing to go anywhere they sent me. It is asinine to suggest that one cannot morally support a military action without expressing a willingness to suit up and join the fight. Does that include the handicapped and elderly? Would you like to send your grandma and grandpa to war? How about a pregnant sister. Everyone is entitled to have whatever opinion they choose regarding war. Chickenhawk is a very childish term used by liberals who cannot make their points intellectually.

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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    you're really unaware of the sectarian conflict in the Middle East and how it is relevant?

    Shia
    I am aware...however I still do not consider it a holy war. I consider it a war against terrorism.

    i think that we should be hiring people to work. currently, there is an excess of labor due to our progression into a global / post labor economy. i would put them to work building domestic infrastructure, innovating new solutions to the energy problem, and ensure that they have access to higher education regardless of ability to pay. i would do so with tax dollars; some from new revenue streams, and others from rethinking our foreign policy.
    I would simply make able bodied welfare recipients work for their entitlement benefits. It does not matter what kind of work they do. The benefit is that they would decide that if they have to work anyway, they will seek a better paying job. Not every welfare recipient is there because he/she cannot find a job. Some families have been on welfare entitlements/food stamps for as many as four generations.

    it didn't work. almost the entirety of southeast Asia fell to communism. pressure for regional change has to come from inside the region.
    What did not work was the US Congress leaving them on their own before they were ready.


    i'm definitely interested in this and other non-oil technologies. i just don't want to wait for it to be profitable to innovate them. my position is to let the research be funded publicly and to let the market pick the winner. i'm also ok with new power plants being public / private partnerships. the government needs to cut a lot of red tape so that we can start building them.
    You have no choice on the wait. The hydrogen fuel cell technology is developed. There are hydrogen powered cars on the road now.....in very small numbers. They will not replace gasoline powered cars until they are cheap enough for the average driver to own them. I agree with government cutting red tape....however red tape in not the biggest issue. Affordability is.

  9. #269
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    If by "work" you mean the surges destroyed the Taliban and the core of al-Qaeda in Iraq you're wrong. Mullah Omar is still very much alive, along the the Afghan Taliban, who just fled to Pakistan where they enjoy safe haven today and are just waiting for us to exit the country and are killing an increasing number of Afghan troops. All the surge in Iraq did was drive Sunni militants across the border into Syria; ISIS gained its core from Ansar-al-Islam and al-Qaeda in Iraq. ISIS' so-called caliph is Iraqi. Many of the organization's best fighters are veterans of the U.S. surge. Now they're back--bigger and badder than ever.
    The surge is in fact working in Afghanistan according to the commanders on the battlefield. However in the long run it may not make any difference as the idiot in the white has already telegraphed his punches, loudly declaring when the US troops will pull out.

  10. #270
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement, given the recent events with ISIS and current status of Afghanistan, that you did before?

    Think back to your opinion when Bush II first invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. Think back to when Obama withdrew from Iraq. Think about the current alleged wind down in Afghanistan. Doesn't really matter what your opinion was, just ask yourself if you feel the same now as you did then. And why do you feel the same or differently.

    Please elaborate.

    I did not approve before and I do not approve now. This is about money and big energy, the subliminal agendas of the CIA and Federal Reserve, and any War is a "TARP" for the MIC. It's a larger industry than the Auto Industry, so you know it is an agenda item, even if it is never discussed as such. National Defense, my ass. National Offense is the game plan militarily and economically.
    "War is good busines, and business is good."
    That's the true Washington mantra. If you don't have an enemy, create one. The CIA will help. All they need is money and weapons, don't ya' know? I don't support that agenda, and I don't remember seeing it on any ballots at election locations.

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