View Poll Results: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement

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  • Yes, I still feel the same.

    30 50.00%
  • It's complicated.

    17 28.33%
  • No, I have switched my thoughts.

    5 8.33%
  • The whole thing makes my head hurt.

    8 13.33%
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Thread: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

  1. #251
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    I don't totally agree with that. Europe started two world wars in the 20th century. And the Bosnia conflict was not all that long ago. And the present uprising of fanatical islam is relatively recent.
    the US has no role in a Middle Eastern holy war.


    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    They should and hopefully they will. However at this point they cannot get it done without our help. At this pong we are the only force preventing a holocaust.

    I ultimately support whatever it takes to end the threat that will eventually end up on our shores as it did on 9/11/01.
    what if it takes significantly higher taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    You will just have to keep an air sickness bad handy for now. In the long run I believe Assad is going down. The uprising had a reason.
    and now he's some sick version of an ally. i will not support helping him in any way. **** that asshole.

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    How do you know that. Do you have a military background?
    i can see that Vietnamization didn't work in Vietnam or Iraq, and it's not working in Afghanistan. it won't work in Syria.

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    Perhaps, however it is not quite that simple. Most terrorism including with ISIS is financed by oil profits. That is why the present strategy might work in Syria as we are bombing their portable refineries...of which they are making profits of 2 million dollars a day on the black market. Cull their operating funds and you limit their capabilities. Part of the problem longterm is our addiction to Mideast oil. If the environmentalists in the US would get off our backs...the US could completely wean itself from Mideast oil and stop financing terrorism.
    we need to work towards replacing oil as a transportation fuel. this would actually have a positive effect, as oil is fungible, and the terrorist groups use oil as a source of funds.

  2. #252
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by DifferentDrummr View Post
    Age is irrelevant to me. Popular definitions aside, I consider anyone a chickenhawk who is unwilling to pick up a weapon, travel overseas, and fight personally.
    The ole "If you don't beat down the recruiters door and demand to be sent to war, your a chickenhawk" slogan is a tired leftwing rant dating back to the 1991 war in Iraq. It is small minded.

  3. #253
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    the US has no role in a Middle Eastern holy war.
    It's not a holy war. There is nothing holy about Islamic fanatical terrorism.

    what if it takes significantly higher taxes?
    Then cut spending elsewhere. I can make many suggestions.

    and now he's some sick version of an ally. i will not support helping him in any way. **** that asshole.
    I don't like him either. I would be delighted if an errant missile took him out.

    i can see that Vietnamization didn't work in Vietnam or Iraq, and it's not working in Afghanistan. it won't work in Syria.
    The bad guys in Vietnam were not financed by oil. They were supported by the Soviets. The only thing similar to todays conflicts is how we are putting limitations on rules of engagement. In Vietnam winning the war outright would have simply required cutting off their supply routes.

    we need to work towards replacing oil as a transportation fuel. this would actually have a positive effect, as oil is fungible, and the terrorist groups use oil as a source of funds.
    Agreed. However it's not going to happen overnight. In the meantime we need to pump our own oil. We actually have estimated reserves larger then Saudi Arabia. I do believe the children growing up now will live to see us get completely off the oil pig.

  4. #254
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Let's send the homeless and the hungry. This will kill two birds with a single stone.
    because of this comment, our conversation has concluded.

  5. #255
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    George Bush claimed that they were on the run and not a problem anymore in May of 2003 already, long before most people even knew who Barack Obama was. But, Al Qaeda went on to kill another 4,000 US soldiers. In fact, George Bush never did destroy Al Qaeda, they are still alive and well. What a partisan empty shirt.

    Bush, May 5, 2003: Al Qaeda is on the run. That group of terrorists who attacked our country is slowly, but surely being decimated. Right now, about half of all the top al Qaeda operatives are either jailed or dead. In either case, they’re not a problem anymore.
    George Bush did nothing of the sort, but there is no lack of dishonesty in the spin of those who refuse to report honestly but would rather spread flat out lies to the willing and gullible who continue to spread them.

    Maureen Dowd in her syndicated May 14, 2003 column, was the one to spin that so dishonestly, and despite the fact that Andrew Sullivan and others thoroughly discredited the lie, the blindly partisan will just keep repeating it anyway.

    What Dowd said was this:

    Busy chasing off Saddam, the president and vice president had told us that Al Qaeda was spent. "Al Qaeda is on the run," President Bush said last week. "That group of terrorists who attacked our country is slowly but surely being decimated... They're not a problem anymore."


    What Bush [B]actually said that you quoted accurately but interpreted as Dowd did was this:

    Al Qaeda is on the run. That group of terrorists who attacked our country is slowly but surely being decimated. Right now, about half of all the top Al Qaeda operatives are either jailed or dead. In either case, they're not a problem anymore.

    Obviously Bush was saying that those who had been jailed or killed were not a problem any more. He never, at any time, ever said that al Qaida is not a problem any more.

    One wonders how we will ever achieve the common goal and purpose as a people to fight terrorism or for any other purpose when the politics of personal destruction are constantly placed ahead of everything else?
    Last edited by AlbqOwl; 09-26-14 at 08:02 PM.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  6. #256
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    It's not a holy war. There is nothing holy about Islamic fanatical terrorism.
    Iraq's Baghdadi calls for 'holy war' - Middle East - Al Jazeera English


    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    Then cut spending elsewhere. I can make many suggestions.
    i won't support cutting social programs to fund endless war. it is also apparent that even though you believe it's vitally important for us to engage in this war, you personally are not willing to pay more taxes to fund it. this is similar to conservatives who feel that it is utterly vital to address the deficit, but only through one sided austerity. i don't believe them, either.

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    I don't like him either. I would be delighted if an errant missile took him out.
    he's a ****head of the highest order.

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    The bad guys in Vietnam were not financed by oil. They were supported by the Soviets. The only thing similar to todays conflicts is how we are putting limitations on rules of engagement. In Vietnam winning the war outright would have simply required cutting off their supply routes.
    Vietnamization had nothing to do with oil. it was the training of South Vietnamese to fight the communists as we exited the war. we've tried this strategy several times since then, and this is our current strategy. it does not work.

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    Agreed. However it's not going to happen overnight. In the meantime we need to pump our own oil. We actually have estimated reserves larger then Saudi Arabia. I do believe the children growing up now will live to see us get completely off the oil pig.
    i would compromise on this one. pump all of the oil you want as long as we have a public / private moonshot to replace oil as a transportation fuel in 20 to 30 years. first step : massively expand the electrical grid so that we can use electric as a transition. cut all red tape, and build a lot of nuclear (preferably thorium) and renewable power plants. oil is a finite resource, and i don't want my kids embroiled in a war over diminishing reserves.

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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by DifferentDrummr View Post
    As long as we're in the realm of stupidity, why not send the Ebola patients from Africa, too?
    Shelf life is too short.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  8. #258
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Baghdadi is the leader of a fanatical Islamic terrorist group. His calling it a holy war does not make it a holy war.

    i won't support cutting social programs to fund endless war. it is also apparent that even though you believe it's vitally important for us to engage in this war, you personally are not willing to pay more taxes to fund it. this is similar to conservatives who feel that it is utterly vital to address the deficit, but only through one sided austerity. i don't believe them, either.
    If we do not get the entitlement state under control at some point, we going to end up like Greece. And there is nobody big enough to bail us out as Europe did Greece.You don't think there is any waste in entitlement spending?



    he's a ****head of the highest order.
    Agreed.

    Vietnamization had nothing to do with oil. it was the training of South Vietnamese to fight the communists as we exited the war. we've tried this strategy several times since then, and this is our current strategy. it does not work.
    Actually it did work in Vietnam. The South Vietnamese fought very well. Vietnam failed because we spent too much time limiting rules of engagement and making prime military targets off limits for the sake of morons at the Paris Peace talks arguing over whether they would have Caviar or Lobster Thermadore at lunch. The South Vietnamese could not hold it together after we left because the US congress stopped funding them.

    [QUOTE]i would compromise on this one. pump all of the oil you want as long as we have a public / private moonshot to replace oil as a transportation fuel in 20 to 30 years.

    I agree with that. We do need to get off the oil pig and we can.

    first step : massively expand the electrical grid so that we can use electric as a transition. cut all red tape, and build a lot of nuclear (preferably thorium) and renewable power plants. oil is a finite resources, and i don't want my kids embroiled in a war over diminishing reserves.
    We will have to expand the electrical grid anyway. We have not built a new plant in decades. However in all likelihood the clean fuel that gets us off of oil will most likely be hydrogen fuel replacing gasoline. The technology already exists...it's just not yet cheap enough to mass produce the automobiles that run on it.

    Shell offers free fill-ups for hydrogen fuel cell vehicles - Los Angeles Times

  9. #259
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    The ole "If you don't beat down the recruiters door and demand to be sent to war, your a chickenhawk" slogan is a tired leftwing rant dating back to the 1991 war in Iraq. It is small minded.
    It dates back to the War of 1812, and it's true. If you want to send Americans into harm's way without being willing to go yourself, you disgust me.
    I fight against the ignorant, irresponsible, and/or closed-minded.
    This group is the worst enemy of America and its freedoms. It includes, but is not limited to, all Trump supporters.

  10. #260
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    Baghdadi is the leader of a fanatical Islamic terrorist group. His calling it a holy war does not make it a holy war.
    you're really unaware of the sectarian conflict in the Middle East and how it is relevant?

    Shia

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    If we do not get the entitlement state under control at some point, we going to end up like Greece. And there is nobody big enough to bail us out as Europe did Greece.You don't think there is any waste in entitlement spending?
    i think that we should be hiring people to work. currently, there is an excess of labor due to our progression into a global / post labor economy. i would put them to work building domestic infrastructure, innovating new solutions to the energy problem, and ensure that they have access to higher education regardless of ability to pay. i would do so with tax dollars; some from new revenue streams, and others from rethinking our foreign policy.

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    Actually it did work in Vietnam. The South Vietnamese fought very well. Vietnam failed because we spent too much time limiting rules of engagement and making prime military targets off limits for the sake of morons at the Paris Peace talks arguing over whether they would have Caviar or Lobster Thermadore at lunch. The South Vietnamese could not hold it together after we left because the US congress stopped funding them.
    it didn't work. almost the entirety of southeast Asia fell to communism. pressure for regional change has to come from inside the region.

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    I agree with that. We do need to get off the oil pig and we can.
    we agree on this point.


    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    We will have to expand the electrical grid anyway. We have not built a new plant in decades. However in all likelihood the clean fuel that gets us off of oil will most likely be hydrogen fuel replacing gasoline. The technology already exists...it's just not yet cheap enough to mass produce the automobiles that run on it.

    Shell offers free fill-ups for hydrogen fuel cell vehicles - Los Angeles Times
    i'm definitely interested in this and other non-oil technologies. i just don't want to wait for it to be profitable to innovate them. my position is to let the research be funded publicly and to let the market pick the winner. i'm also ok with new power plants being public / private partnerships. the government needs to cut a lot of red tape so that we can start building them.

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