View Poll Results: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement

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  • Yes, I still feel the same.

    30 50.00%
  • It's complicated.

    17 28.33%
  • No, I have switched my thoughts.

    5 8.33%
  • The whole thing makes my head hurt.

    8 13.33%
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Thread: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

  1. #161
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    No.....I am not. And none are needed.
    So we are back to the argument of should haves with no political movement at the time to make them reality. In the mean time we are spending beyond means and I find it absurd that we need a military with such size and cost that outspends the next 8-10 nations combined (based on whatever source you would like.) Just as I find it absurd to need the social safety net spending we see today.

    We are stuck with an unpleasant reality, we cannot fund all that we politically want and our ongoing without interruption Total Debt growth is more than enough evidence that we have a clear spending problem. You say social safety nets should be where cuts are, others say the military should be where cuts are. I say it is all on the table for discussion and I can see entire departments gone in the process. Division of state level activity and federal level activity in an effort to reduce our tax burden. But what I will not say is what got us into this mess in the first place, partisan spending protection while claiming opposition spending wants are the exclusive problem. They are all a problem getting us to another unpleasant reality. Our deficits, even in decline, suggest we need far more tax revenues or far less spending. I suggest far less spending targeting every single department excluding no one. Including our bloated we must police the entire planet military.

  2. #162
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    wrong, but thanks for at least being honest.
    We did not raise taxes for the 1991 war or the 2003 war. We are at war with ISIS now and we are not raising taxes....especially in an election year.

  3. #163
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    So you say, but that would mean doing then what we are doing now... continued expense in dollars and potential lives to occupy of Iraq (in terms Bush 43 could not even negotiate for at the time,) and the occupation of Syria as well in an ongoing manner. The "line in the sand" nonsense from Obama was aimed at al-Assad, and if we had attacked and removed him we would be facing there what we face in Iraq now. A government of "moderates" dealing with various factions who do not agree. Again, those that make up ISIS have been there looking for opportunity to capitalize on. What you are suggesting is taking one of the longest conflicts the US has been engaged in and extending it outward with indefinite determination and including a 2nd nation to occupy as well in the exact same terms. So much for fiscal conservatism.

    The harsh truth is there really is only two answers at this point. One is our participation in genocide, the other is sitting back and letting them engage in genocide against one another. I am questioning our participation in forcing by long term occupation a more peaceful coexistence between factions that clearly want anything but a peaceful coexistence. Again there is no aptitude among all these ideologies to get along, and we clearly have been unsuccessful and influencing that with Western governmental and sociological reasoning. Why do you think it would have worked with a long term occupation of both Iraq and Syria?
    GWB's planners envisioned a long term US military presence in a stabilized Iraq (as it was in 2009). The SOFA was left to be renegotiated in 2011 so as not to tie his successor's hands. No one imagined BHO would withdraw altogether. In 2012 there was no need whatsoever for US forces in Syria. Local forces wanted only weapons to do their own fighting.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  4. #164
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    there is no need to send kids off to die against their will. there are better ways to get Americans to demand a halt to a perpetual state of war.

    way #1 : hit them in the pocketbook hard every time there is a US military action. we need to choose our fights very carefully, and that is the simplest way to ensure that we do.
    We'll I already agreed heartily with you on point one, but point two that you are against is further insurance. There's too many people who already don't pay taxes. But let them all know that if they support another war that their kids will be suiting up for it, I think you'll see that as much a deterrent as financial.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  5. #165
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    We did not raise taxes for the 1991 war or the 2003 war. We are at war with ISIS now and we are not raising taxes....especially in an election year.
    we've been borrowing to pay for war for a long time. that doesn't make it good policy. i don't support continuing to do so.

  6. #166
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    So you say, but that would mean doing then what we are doing now... continued expense in dollars and potential lives to occupy of Iraq (in terms Bush 43 could not even negotiate for at the time,) and the occupation of Syria as well in an ongoing manner. The "line in the sand" nonsense from Obama was aimed at al-Assad, and if we had attacked and removed him we would be facing there what we face in Iraq now. A government of "moderates" dealing with various factions who do not agree. Again, those that make up ISIS have been there looking for opportunity to capitalize on. What you are suggesting is taking one of the longest conflicts the US has been engaged in and extending it outward with indefinite determination and including a 2nd nation to occupy as well in the exact same terms. So much for fiscal conservatism.

    The harsh truth is there really is only two answers at this point. One is our participation in genocide, the other is sitting back and letting them engage in genocide against one another. I am questioning our participation in forcing by long term occupation a more peaceful coexistence between factions that clearly want anything but a peaceful coexistence. Again there is no aptitude among all these ideologies to get along, and we clearly have been unsuccessful and influencing that with Western governmental and sociological reasoning. Why do you think it would have worked with a long term occupation of both Iraq and Syria?
    Bush had FIVE YEARS to train the Iraqi military, if they're not ready, then they're NOT ready! Think about what's surrounding the Islamic State. A very capable Iranian army, Saudi Arabia with the worlds fourth largest military, the very capable military of Israel, Jordan, Egypt, and Turkey. Why in the hell are we even talking about intervening/interfering. Those regional powers can and should be forced to deal with their problem.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  7. #167
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    we've been borrowing to pay for war for a long time. that doesn't make it good policy. i don't support continuing to do so.
    Every war in US history has been paid for via deficit financing.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  8. #168
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    we've been borrowing to pay for war for a long time. that doesn't make it good policy. i don't support continuing to do so.
    We have been borrowing money to pay for everything for a long time. It is not wars that are breaking the bank. It is a runaway entitlement system. That's what we need to get control of.

  9. #169
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Iraq's military weakness is a result of the complete US withdrawal in 2011, something no responsible planner would have advocated. The growth of ISIS is a result of US hesitation in Syria. Given more thoughtful and courageous US leadership, the current crisis need never have occurred.
    Why did we spend 10 years and billion$ to train and equip their military then? How would propping up another sectarian regime like Saddams help stabilize the region? Did you think we would be there holding their hands forever? Then there's the fact that they wanted us out and we were taking casualties daily because of it. Is that the respect you have for our military? Make them be policemen in foreign land and let them keep be maimed and dying because we failed to make Iraq stabile? Is that what our military is for? To die for our mistakes?

  10. #170
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    We have been borrowing money to pay for everything for a long time. It is not wars that are breaking the bank. It is a runaway entitlement system. That's what we need to get control of.
    Social Security pays for itself by law. Are you saying we should do the same with the defense budget?

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