View Poll Results: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement

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  • Yes, I still feel the same.

    30 50.00%
  • It's complicated.

    17 28.33%
  • No, I have switched my thoughts.

    5 8.33%
  • The whole thing makes my head hurt.

    8 13.33%
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Thread: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

  1. #141
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Yep! That and the draft would go a long way to curb war.
    Only thing I have to say about a draft is that if such a thing ever occurred again - any form of conscription by the wealthy should be made illegal with mandatory federal max prison jail time. As well, military special treatment should be frowned upon - put them on the front lines with everyone else.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  2. #142
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Only thing I have to say about a draft is that if such a thing ever occurred again - any form of conscription by the wealthy should be made illegal with mandatory federal max prison jail time. As well, military special treatment should be frowned upon - put them on the front lines with everyone else.
    Amen bro!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  3. #143
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Yes, my feelings haven't changed. We never should have been in the region to begin with. We shouldn't be there now. There is not one unified understanding of why went there or why we stay there. It has become such a mind numbing cluster**** that we now are engaged in a "war against war". A bit like what "your definition of is is".

    Reminds of the old protect banner, "fighting for peace is like ****ing for virginity".










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  4. #144
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    Everything our government does these days in on the credit card. Social Security checks are on the credit card. Welfare entitlements are on the credit card. It's not military ventures that is breaking the bank. It's the runaway entitlement system. We have nearly 50 million Americans on food stamps.
    But are you personally willing to pay more in taxes to fund perpetual war?

  5. #145
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Yep! That and the draft would go a long way to curb war.
    I'm against a draft in all but the direst of circumstances.

  6. #146
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    I'm against a draft in all but the direst of circumstances.
    Why is that.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  7. #147
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Why is that.
    Because the fight to get rid of it was long and difficult, and putting it back in place would be a huge step backwards.

    If you think it will result in the elite waging war more carefully, you're wrong. They will still be able to keep their kids away from the front lines, draft or no.

    Perhaps we should return to the model in which the king and his noblemen led the troops into battle. I bet Congress and the executive branch would become absolute peaceniks if that was the case.

  8. #148
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    Because the fight to get rid of it was long and difficult, and putting it back in place would be a huge step backwards.

    If you think it will result in the elite waging war more carefully, you're wrong. They will still be able to keep their kids away from the front lines, draft or no.

    Perhaps we should return to the model in which the king and his noblemen led the troops into battle. I bet Congress and the executive branch would become absolute peaceniks if that was the case.
    Oh yes of course the "elite" would still keep their kids away from the front lines, but the rest, those Americans that are so quick to jump on the band wagon in support of war, wouldn't. Therefore we might find less support. Last summer, 70% of Americans were opposed to any military action in Syria! this summer 70% support military action in Syria. Dear lord, it's cynical I know, but Americans never are going to learn what politicians really do. IMO, Jack taxes to the ceiling every time we roll out our military and pay for it in real time, and reinstate that damn draft and let's see how much Americans can be scared into conflict.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  9. #149
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    The middle east has always been chaotic. There has always been war. Even before the Crusades.


    The only reason we give a **** is because they're drowning in oil. No oil? We go back to ignoring them, like we had been doing for the last 300 years prior to the demand for oil.

    Think about it. Most of the middle east ascribes to a religion that places very little value on human life. It is, as a culture, antiquated to the extreme, BY DESIGN. Think of them as almost being violent Amish. When you way of life dictated by tenants that are a thousand years expired, and your leaders are indoctrinated and compelled to INDOCTRINATE those very same tenants upon their populace, this is what happens.

    Imagine what THIS country would look like if each individual interpretation of Christianity had the added belief that all the OTHERS were infidels who cannot be suffered to live...at least not in the same vicinity as themselves.
    I would agree, and it speaks to my point on having to go with a confusing, changing, and hypocritical foreign policy. If there is something in it for the US (or our "allies") then there is behavior we will overlook. This is very true of Saudi Arabia and how they handle discrimination, oppression and persecution of Christians. Now, are the chopping heads off and putting the video on the internet? No, but that does not negate that we overlook their behavior because there is something in it for us. So we overlook that generally speaking Christians enter Saudi Arabia as foreign and temporary workers that cannot practice their faith openly. Bibles, crucifixes, statues, items with Christian religious symbols are still not publicly allowed forcing those who are Christian to worship within the confines of their residences. Yet, we do business with these jackals.

    You are correct in that this region of the world has been in some degree of conflict that predates even the concept of monotheism, let alone Islam that by design does not want or allow for ideological competition. Even with the splintering of that faith the result is more of the same, pockets of ideology that cannot get along with one another. It explains well everything from Libya to Egypt to Syria to Iraq and so many others that cannot function with groups of competition ideology trying to negotiate. It is all based upon a faith that does not allow for negotiation. That then makes good sense as to why western governmental and sociological philosophies do not work over there in any long term. Note what was put in place in Iraq and how quickly that resulted in failure. I suspect Afghanistan is not that far behind in experiencing some degree of set back in dealing with what all is left of their competition ideologies (and there are many, it is not just the Taliban.) Representative governments tend to fail over there, and what seems to be the norm suggest aptitude for military and/or religious dictatorships. Seriously, they are all reading a book with a baked into the text mechanism of societal control and "religious authority."

    So, rather hypocritically we support those dictatorships that benefit us in some way then point the finger at others spending lives and dollars in a confusing effort to tell everyone over there how they should live and under what system of government. We can then tell from history all the way to current, that it tends to fail in spectacular manner. What is bred, and rather well, is contempt for Western governments in interference in everyone else's lives. And speak of, more often than not we worked with people we later determine are problems. We tried to work openly with Saddam before calling him a problem, and don't get me started on our position during the Iran / Iraq war. Similar story with those that made up the Mujaheddin in Afghanistan when fighting the Russians, and what they later became under terrorist organization names.

    It has always been a mess over there but I would argue more often than not our interventionism has made matters worse, and as such placed us in even more danger the further we go along. It is an odd position for us to be in but we seemed to have upset (or at least are not trusted) by a good 1/2 the planet as of today. How can that possibly be defined as good policy?

  10. #150
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    The New York times is considered mainstream...however it also just barely above tabloid.
    Mr Fail,

    So, in other words, if it conveys a message you don't want, it's unworthy of being a historical document.

    I'll be honest. I can't argue against that. It's just so utterly duplicitous as to be bat-scheit crazy. One cannot argue against bat-scheit crazy.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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