View Poll Results: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement

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  • Yes, I still feel the same.

    30 50.00%
  • It's complicated.

    17 28.33%
  • No, I have switched my thoughts.

    5 8.33%
  • The whole thing makes my head hurt.

    8 13.33%
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Thread: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

  1. #101
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    Montecresto's Avatar
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Obama was trying to impress the warhawks, and that's the only reason he supported a surge in Afghanistan. The GOP ran a campaign against him and constantly challenged him to say a surge in Iraq worked, which it didn't. Iraq is still ****ed up, obviously. Both surges were nothing more than BS American politics.
    There were 257 terrorist attacks in Iraq in 2008, but the Bush apologists will have you to believe there was some sort of victory there.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  2. #102
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    Jack Hays's Avatar
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    There were 257 terrorist attacks in Iraq in 2008, but the Bush apologists will have you to believe there was some sort of victory there.
    That was a historically low number, and casualties were way down too. Iraq was a victory, thrown away by BHO.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  3. #103
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    That was a historically low number, and casualties were way down too. Iraq was a victory, thrown away by BHO.
    The Iraq War was a mess, and remains a mess that America and most of Europe and the Middle East will have to deal with for generations.

  4. #104
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Obama was trying to impress the warhawks, and that's the only reason he supported a surge in Afghanistan. The GOP ran a campaign against him and constantly challenged him to say a surge in Iraq worked, which it didn't. Iraq is still ****ed up, obviously. Both surges were nothing more than BS American politics.
    Terrorist attacks in Iraq didn't go down significantly until Obama became president with 76 in 2009 and 44 in 2010. But between 2003-2010 there were 2,000 such attacks. Want to know how many terrorist attacks there were in Iraq in the previous decade?
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  5. #105
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    The Iraq War was a mess, and remains a mess that America and most of Europe and the Middle East will have to deal with for generations.
    I make no claim re the wisdom of going into Iraq. But by 2008 victory had been achieved and 2009 was the quietest year in a long time. That could have have been sustained. ISIS is a product of our hesitation in Syria and our abdication in Iraq.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  6. #106
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    I make no claim re the wisdom of going into Iraq. But by 2008 victory had been achieved and 2009 was the quietest year in a long time. That could have have been sustained. ISIS is a product of our hesitation in Syria and our abdication in Iraq.
    It's our problem because of our past policies in the region. A combination of European colonialism and US nation building led to this being our concern, though our nation gets no actual benefit from constant intervention. The only people who wanted to go into Syria were the nation building warharwks. I guess you are one.

  7. #107
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    It's our problem because of our past policies in the region. A combination of European colonialism and US nation building led to this being our concern, though our nation gets no actual benefit from constant intervention. The only people who wanted to go into Syria were the nation building warharwks. I guess you are one.
    That, and Americans that had the **** scared out of them by rhetoric like, "do we have to wait for the smoking gun in the form of a mushroom cloud over a US city"? Which was stated when it was apparent that even with the unprecedented access Hans Blix had, he could find no WMD.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  8. #108
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement, given the recent events with ISIS and current status of Afghanistan, that you did before?

    .
    This is the only time I have supported our going to the ME in a conflict or war effort. ISIS is a different animal than we have been dealing with previously. They are serious, and they are brutal savages. Much worse that AQ ever dreamed of being, from what I can tell. I say kill them all, and take no prisoners.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

  9. #109
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    This is the only time I have supported our going to the ME in a conflict or war effort. ISIS is a different animal than we have been dealing with previously. They are serious, and they are brutal savages. Much worse that AQ ever dreamed of being, from what I can tell. I say kill them all, and take no prisoners.
    Yes well, AQ lives. Why would you think that we could kill all of a group much worse then they could have dreamed of? Wouldn't it have been more prudent to leave in place those figures who contained such groups?
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  10. #110
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    I have changed my position on this greatly, and consider this latest round of dealing with the ISIS something we were dared (perhaps better said, bullied) into.

    What is happening is further conformation to me that our foreign policy is confusing, hypocritical, and ultimately a problem we make worse because of our attitudes about how another region of the world should exist.

    What gets to me the most is ISIS did not show up yesterday, those that make up ISIS have been there a very long time and looked to opprotunity to capitalize on. This was true of the multiple way civil war in Syria, and the incredible weakness of the Iraq government (and military.)

    Our Nobel Peace Prize winning President Obama is now the 4th President in a row to drop a bomb on Iraq and mean it, and now we are striking targets in Syria as well. As apart of a "coalition" that includes plenty of other nations we claim are friends but also exibit harsh treatment for those of competition religions, themselves show outward sexism and pedophilia, and other inequalities and less than acceptable social behavior. We claim we are helping "moderates" who seem to tave no real interest in engaging ISIS in Syria. As for Iraq, they have demostrated well their aptitude to drop their US issued weapons and run like hell to Baghdad (or other regions of Iraq ISIS does not seem to want... at least not today.) ISIS's view of state independence under such religious control is not unique but we are told via fear that we have to do something about them especially while overlooking others perhaps a notch down in extremism assuming the US gets something out of the deal.

    I think we are making a monumental mistake. Between Bush 41, Clinton, Bush 43, and now Obama we have a trail of nations from Libya, to Egypt, to Syria, to Iraq, to Somalia, to Afghanistan, to several others that have become long term disasters with a fiscal consequence only beaten out by the human lives lost, or forever changed, consequence. All one has to do is look at the overwhelmed VA to realize we really did a great disservice to those we put in harms way for what I history will tell was very little gain. We decide which tyrants are acceptable assuming there is something in it for us, while pointing the finger at others suggesting they are the problem.

    ISIS does seem like a huge problem, one I would argue we greatly ensured would happen with decades of terrible foreign policy designed to ensure there would be plenty out there that did not like us very much. All evidence supporting. I think Obama got punked into dealing with this in the manner he has, and joined a long line of predicessors who seem to have caused more problems than they have solved over the years.

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