View Poll Results: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement

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  • Yes, I still feel the same.

    30 50.00%
  • It's complicated.

    17 28.33%
  • No, I have switched my thoughts.

    5 8.33%
  • The whole thing makes my head hurt.

    8 13.33%
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Thread: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

  1. #91
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    So are many others. Who we choose to accept as valid or not tends to fall down party lines, which, in my opinion, is asinine.

    At the end of the day, we know only what we are told, unless we WORKED for the CIA in the 60s. Me? I'll believe the photo of Saddam shaking hands with american leadership.

    All of this, this entire mess in the middle east has been going on for centuries. It sounds cruel, and maybe it makes me an empathy lacking son of a bitch, but I wish we could just take all of their oil, and forget every last one of those cock suckers, including Israel. Forget them, let them continue murdering each other in God's name. I'm sick of it. To the point of wanting Mecca AND Jerusalem destroyed, cratered, turned into a giant parking lot.


    When my children fight and bicker over a toy, even after I repeatedly tell them to stop, I take the toy away. Simple as that.
    I have no problem at all with any USG involvement with Saddam or anyone else in the 1960's. That was before my time; I didn't begin my professional life until the 1970's. But the episodes I know about are very different in fact from David Wise's accounts.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    I feel the same. We should't have gone to Iraq, and we shouldn't go back. We have spent trillions of dollars to nation build the middle east, and it's all been fruitless for us. What benefit does our nation ever get from these wars? I don't think the people there respect the US or thank us for anything. They are being recruited to ISIS, anti American terrorism is stronger and more extreme than the Taliban was, and our media is playing the same BS propaganda... getting citizens scared and fired up to go right back into the region and spend another 10 years at war and more trillions.



    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement, given the recent events with ISIS and current status of Afghanistan, that you did before?

    Think back to your opinion when Bush II first invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. Think back to when Obama withdrew from Iraq. Think about the current alleged wind down in Afghanistan. Doesn't really matter what your opinion was, just ask yourself if you feel the same now as you did then. And why do you feel the same or differently.

    Please elaborate.

  3. #93
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    I supported Afghanistan. I felt that we had some great opportunities but dropped the ball. Now it is a mess.

    I DID NOT support Iraq in any way, shape or form. Not once. Not from the beginning.

    I support going in and ****ing up ISIS 100% as long as others provide at least an equal number of boots.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
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    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  4. #94
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    I feel the same. We should't have gone to Iraq, and we shouldn't go back. We have spent trillions of dollars to nation build the middle east, and it's all been fruitless for us. What benefit does our nation ever get from these wars? I don't think the people there respect the US or thank us for anything. They are being recruited to ISIS, anti American terrorism is stronger and more extreme than the Taliban was, and our media is playing the same BS propaganda... getting citizens scared and fired up to go right back into the region and spend another 10 years at war and more trillions.
    Spot on with that!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  5. #95
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    I like your post Fiddy and share much of your concerns and feelings.

    I don't think many Americans, other than the warhawks and military industrialists, wanted to go right back to Iraq until the media started playing the videos of Americans being beheaded and the anti-American propaganda videos. That made it personal for many Americans. I was upset and wanted to see ISIS pay, but my emotional level has since gone down and my reasoning is now overtaking my thought process.

    It is complicated.

    We could have paid the ransom they wanted for those journalists lives, but our nation's policy is to not bargain with terrorist. Then when we see a US citizen brutally murdered, we want war. Our policies are now putting us in a very powerful position if the outcome drives the people to want war, because war is costly to us.

    Those journalists choose to go there. The US didn't have a travel ban in place to keep them out of there.

    I am asking myself if our policies leading up to the capture of journalists are flawed. Could we do more to prevent this? Or maybe, could we pay the ransoms and use it a means to track them down, capture them, and/or freeze their assets? The FBI, CIA, and other federal governmental departments employ forensic accountants for those purposes.




    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    I think it perfectly acceptable to be continuously challenged when considering foreign policy engagements. That's why I selected, "It's complicated." I, myself, had curiously moved back and forth between support and skepticism in engagement in Iraq and Afghanistan. I've settled on being inherently uninterested in democratic nation building, but not against destroying terrorist cells. Whilst I'm continuing to be skeptical of the need for a significant war presently and am concerned with its lasting impact on America's bottom line, I am nevertheless torn on whether or not such sacrifices may be inherently necessary to prevent attacks on our soil or those of our choicest allies.

  6. #96
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I imagine some prior to 9/11 said groups like al Qaida are not a threat to us here at home.
    Not according to the white house memos...

  7. #97
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Well, sometimes don't you have to trust the government to investigate terror organizations and stop attacks, which they have had some recent success doing? After 9/11, a lot of people were eager to give up their privacy and rights in hopes it would prevent future attacks. I suppose, those pro Patriot Act people trusted the government in granting it more power, authority, and ability to intrude into the personal lives, or they distrusted the government but supported the Patriot Act because they were scared ****less... which seems kind of psychotic and ass backwards to me

    But I didn't support the Patriot Act. I don't trust the government or it's workers in exercising the authority of the Patriot Act in a completely ethical manner, but I don't suggest getting paranoid about terrorist threats to the point it alters your life so that you live in fear, act irrationally, and want constant war even when it is has no actual measurable benefit to your nation. Wars should not be fought out of fear and paranoia. That's ridiculous.

    The US is extremely safe compared to other nations.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I didn't say that. But if you think 9/11 was a boogeyman with 3,000 dead and millions who had their lives changed forever, I suggest we not put you in charge of national security. We didn't take Osama bin Laden seriously enough. And if we fail to know who our enemy is and fail to understand his intent and resolve to carry it out, we give him a huge advantage. Some might say we give him license to wreck whatever havoc he chooses.

  8. #98
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement, given the recent events with ISIS and current status of Afghanistan, that you did before?

    Think back to your opinion when Bush II first invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. Think back to when Obama withdrew from Iraq. Think about the current alleged wind down in Afghanistan. Doesn't really matter what your opinion was, just ask yourself if you feel the same now as you did then. And why do you feel the same or differently.

    Please elaborate.
    I feel the same with one caveat. So long as we were willing to win in Afghanistan, I was for finishing the job. When the President went to West Point and announced that we were going to lose on purpose, that changed my calculus.

  9. #99
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Obama was trying to impress the warhawks, and that's the only reason he supported a surge in Afghanistan. The GOP ran a campaign against him and constantly challenged him to say a surge in Iraq worked, which it didn't. Iraq is still ****ed up, obviously. Both surges were nothing more than BS American politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    It's complicated.

    But just as an aside, I find it a little strange that Obama came into office touting a surge in Afghanistan, tens of thousands more combat boots on the ground, in a country where there virtually were a few hundred Taliban causing some trouble and Al Quida hiding in the hills, to protect a virtual wasteland. And yet, in highly populated areas, like Syria and Iraq, where just in a couple of days 130,000 people were driven from their homes over the border into Turkey, thousands being killed, beheaded, etc., it all can be handled by air strikes. That just seems upside down to me. If anywhere airstrikes would be appropriate, it seems to me it's Afghanistan - you could probably tell Karsai and/or whomever follows you've done enough, you're on your own, and we'll send some drones over the landscape periodically to keep the Taliban and terrorists from setting up shop again.

  10. #100
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    Re: Do you still feel the same now about our middle east involvement...

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Obama was trying to impress the warhawks, and that's the only reason he supported a surge in Afghanistan. The GOP ran a campaign against him and constantly challenged him to say a surge in Iraq worked, which it didn't. Iraq is still ****ed up, obviously. Both surges were nothing more than BS American politics.
    Surges worked in both Afghanistan and Iraq. By 2008 Iraq was a victory that BHO has since thrown away. That and his hesitation in Syria gave rise to ISIS.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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